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The new accordian...

addedc

Experienced
After seeing the latest line up of acts for Cochella, it made me wonder about the future of guitar in music. Apart from the personal satisfaction it gives us, in 10 years, is being an accomplished guitar player going to have all the social capital of being a great accordian player 50 years ago?
 

Rick

Fractal Fanatic
Accordion players are still highly regarded in some genres of music. Perhaps it’s going to come down to that, but guitar playing has been on it’s death bed many times if you listen to the non-playing prognosticators of music’s future. It always ends up right back up front. There is something about the direct connection of hand to string, I feel, that keeps the sound of guitar more personal and human. And in a world of computer music, that’s more needed today than ever.

I have to say, though, that I clicked on this post because I thought you had a good accordion patch to share! Apparently, interest isn’t dead.

:)
 
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plexi59

Guest
If you play guitar for "social capital", you've chosen poorly. This hasn't been a thing since early to mid 90s. :) And arguably the amount of social capital to be had was pretty limited for guitarists even then. Get into vocals if you care about such things. Looking at what passes for singing these days, you don't even need to be any good.
 

Muad'zin

Fractal Fanatic
Accordion players are still highly regarded in some genres of music. Perhaps it’s going to come down to that, but guitar playing has been on it’s death bed many times if you listen to the non-playing prognosticators of music’s future. It always ends up right back up front. There is something about the direct connection of hand to string, I feel, that keeps the sound of guitar more personal and human. And in a world of computer music, that’s more needed today than ever.

I have to say, though, that I clicked on this post because I thought you had a good accordion patch to share! Apparently, interest isn’t dead.

:)
People keep saying it will bounce back, but guitar was never EVER this much on its deathbed as it currently is, because back then when things were iffy guitar was still somewhere in popular music getting airplay. Just less so at the forefront. But even disco still had guitar in it. Nowadays people just copy paste stuff or create things on their computers and no electric guitar ever enters the final mix. Music with guitar in it has all but disappeared from the mainstream. Taylor Swift picking up a guitar to strum some rhythm guitar is the best we've gotten in the past decade as a guitar hero that inspires people to pick up a guitar. I spoke to a Belgian guitar player giving a Boss workshop about some new Katana thingamabob in a guitar store. You know how many people attended that weren't staff by the way? I think less then could be counted on the fingers on my hand. And I just walked into the store by accident. Less then 5 guitarists could bother to show up. But that aside, the guy doing the demo (had a wicked awesome analog rig by the way) said afterwards that while he had successful bands, their success rarely lasted longer then a year, then their shelf life was up. The radio isn't playing guitar music anymore, except for old farts stations, and with no airplay of your music it was next to impossible to sustain your initial success.

Cue a thousand stories of I know bands X, Y and Z that I never heard off that are doing very well, so rock ain't dead. Yeah well, when the electric guitar knocked the accordion off its throne (which my mother had to learn by the way at that time) it didn't quite disappear either. Surviving in its own niche. But is surviving in your little niche enough victory when from the 50's to the 90's it ruled? I mean the Netherlands ruled the world from the early 1600's to 1700, we even mounted the last successful invasion of the British Isles in 1688. And now we are mostly known for smoking weed and the red light district. I'd rather rule the world then be known for hookers and hash brownies.

As for social capital, you know who got the girls in my last two bands? It wasn't the guy playing the 6 strings. Drummers and bass players.
 
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plexi59

Guest
You know how many people attended that weren't staff by the way
Maybe because it's about "Katana thingamabob" and demoed by a Belgian player nobody knows about. Some 15 years ago I attended a workshop hosted by Joe Satriani in one of the local stores here in Seattle. That was back when he played Peavey JSX. I could barely squeeze through the door. I'm pretty sure the entire thing was a major fire safety violation.
 

lwknives

Experienced
People keep saying it will bounce back, but guitar was never EVER this much on its deathbed as it currently is, because back then when things were iffy guitar was still somewhere in popular music getting airplay. Just less so at the forefront. But even disco still had guitar in it. Nowadays people just copy paste stuff or create things on their computers and no electric guitar ever enters the final mix. Music with guitar in it has all but disappeared from the mainstream. Taylor Swift picking up a guitar to strum some rhythm guitar is the best we've gotten in the past decade as a guitar hero that inspires people to pick up a guitar. I spoke to a Belgian guitar player giving a Boss workshop about some new Katana thingamabob in a guitar store. You know how many people attended that weren't staff by the way? I think less then could be counted on the fingers on my hand. And I just walked into the store by accident. Less then 5 guitarists could bother to show up. But that aside, the guy doing the demo (had a wicked awesome analog rig by the way) said afterwards that while he had successful bands, their success rarely lasted longer then a year, then their shelf life was up. The radio isn't playing guitar music anymore, except for old farts stations, and with no airplay of your music it was next to impossible to sustain your initial success.

Cue a thousand stories of I know bands X, Y and Z that I never heard off that are doing very well, so rock ain't dead. Yeah well, when the electric guitar knocked the accordion off its throne (which my mother had to learn by the way at that time) it didn't quite disappear either. Surviving in its own niche. But is surviving in your little niche enough victory when from the 50's to the 90's it ruled? I mean the Netherlands ruled the world from the early 1600's to 1700, we even mounted the last successful invasion of the British Isles in 1688. And now we are mostly known for smoking weed and the red light district. I'd rather rule the world then be known for hookers and hash brownies.

As for social capital, you know who got the girls in my last two bands? It wasn't the guy playing the 6 strings. Drummers and bass players.
Do you listen to modern pop? There is quite a bit of guitar mixed into some of the pop songs. It’s playing a Suport role vs a lead role but it is still a part of music.
Plus there is still lots of guitar in country music, country is pretty dang huge! There is also still lots of guitar in praise and worship music.
Try turning on your radio maybe...
 

Stratman68

Axe-Master
Being an older guy-I remember this BS from 30 years ago. Hmmm, Still plenty of guitars making folks happy.
Guitars are what they are, they have there place and ain't going nowhere.
I mean if your talking star wars, well maybe......
 

Rick

Fractal Fanatic
You don’t go to a normal band or individual singer‘s live show in any popular music form and not see at least one guitarist there, more often two or three. As @Stratman68 notes, I’ve heard this death march many times in my 40+ years in the biz. Maybe one day it’ll be true, but I won’t live to see it (and I have decades to go!). Time will, as it always does, let us know who was right!
 

Muad'zin

Fractal Fanatic
Maybe because it's about "Katana thingamabob" and demoed by a Belgian player nobody knows about. Some 15 years ago I attended a workshop hosted by Joe Satriani in one of the local stores here in Seattle. That was back when he played Peavey JSX. I could barely squeeze through the door. I'm pretty sure the entire thing was a major fire safety violation.

Belgian dude may not be that well known stateside, but I reckon he's more well known over here. Enough at least for Boss to hire him. And the thingamabob was actually quite good and useful. A guitar load box so you can drive your tubes hot like crazy and not have to worry about angry neighbors with pitchforks, which has MIDI control, time based effects, FX loop that lowers the volume back to line volume, then raises it up at speaker volume again at return so you can add an FX loop to an amp that doesn't have any, the ability to load IR's for recording out, play completely silent over a headphone. Naturally, with the Axe FX I basically already got all of that so it wasn't for me, henceforth why its name slipped my mind and why I call it a thingamabob, but I reckon if you're an all analog dude its quite useful.

Do you listen to modern pop? There is quite a bit of guitar mixed into some of the pop songs. It’s playing a Suport role vs a lead role but it is still a part of music.

I'm a zumba and gym group lesson instructor. I pretty much can't escape modern pop. Guitar is pretty much non-existant. Maybe occasionally , like in 1 in 20 I hear some guitar, usually some acoustic stuff.

Plus there is still lots of guitar in country music, country is pretty dang huge! There is also still lots of guitar in praise and worship music.
Try turning on your radio maybe...

I've pretty much stopped listening to radio in the 90's as it was already all rap and dance back then. Unless you put on an old fart station. Which at age 50 I think I also qualify as. I do know that over here country is pretty much non-existant, as niche as rock music has become. And worship music, well, good look finding that one person in the Netherlands who still actually believes in religion and who isn't a Muslim.

Being an older guy-I remember this BS from 30 years ago. Hmmm, Still plenty of guitars making folks happy.

In 1990 U2 released Achtung Baby and the next year Nirvana would release Nevermind and Metallica the Black Album. Rock was very much alive back then and the radio was not yet completely dominated by rap and dance. There was still a mix. Although the dance guys were saying back then that rock was going to be dead. And they were right. Just not back then.

Guitars are what they are, they have there place and ain't going nowhere.
I mean if your talking star wars, well maybe......

Guitars are mostly for old people. Even the old classic rock festivals are programming more and more rap artists and DJ's. Even if they wanted to there just aren't any new major upcoming rock artists to put on the bill that will draw in a crowd like a rap artist or DJ will.

As for Star Wars, there are only six Star Wars movies and Timothy Zahn's Heir To The Empire book trilogy is the real episode 7 to 9. It just is. Life is better this way.

You don’t go to a normal band or individual singer‘s live show in any popular music form and not see at least one guitarist there, more often two or three. As @Stratman68 notes, I’ve heard this death march many times in my 40+ years in the biz. Maybe one day it’ll be true, but I won’t live to see it (and I have decades to go!). Time will, as it always does, let us know who was right!

I for one have not only seen the demise of rock and the electric guitar, I see its severed head while the body still twitches. I'm sure that the accordion players and jazz musicians from the 1950's also thought that this rock 'n' roll thing was a passing fad. Just because you are used to the demise doesn't mean its not there. And that saddens me because I love guitar and rock music. So I hope you guys are right and that it will make a comeback. I don't have any hopes for it anymore, but it would give me great pleasure nonetheless.
 

Stratman68

Axe-Master
Guitars are mostly for old people. Even the old classic rock festivals are programming more and more rap artists and DJ's. Even if they wanted to there just aren't any new major upcoming rock artists to put on the bill that will draw in a crowd like a rap artist or DJ will.

As for Star Wars, there are only six Star Wars movies and Timothy Zahn's Heir To The Empire book trilogy is the real episode 7 to 9. It just is. Life is better this way.

what an utterly ridiculous thing to say. I will not debate with you.
 

Rick

Fractal Fanatic
Ultimately, we each see things the way we do. I’m not offended, @Muad'zin has his view, I have mine, it’s all good. What will be will be.

I live in Texas, guitar is alive and well here. I can’t speak for the world.
 

Stratman68

Axe-Master
Ultimately, we each see things the way we do. I’m not offended, @Muad'zin has his view, I have mine, it’s all good. What will be will be.

I live in Texas, guitar is alive and well here. I can’t speak for the world.

Yes your right Rick. It was the "Guitars are mostly for old people" statement that got me. Guitar is alive and well with everyone I know, young and old.
 

peteri

Experienced
I think the guitar is in an excellent place, Cochella isn't a way of judging IMHO.

The quality of the products available are amazing, this shows that companies (who know a lot more than us) are prepared to invest in quality and innovation, that would not be happening without the market to support that.

There are plenty of young players coming through, and if you look at the live music scene you'll always (outside of EDM) find guitars, even some EDM will have it.

Jay-Z, Beyoncé etc. they all tour with multiple guitarists.

Additionally there's a really strong blues and folk scene going - Samantha Fish, Joanne Shaw Taylor, Larkin Poe etc. and the reason I cite those all are they are females who are playing guitar in a lead context, I'm 50 and I've never scene so many females playing guitar - meaning the potential population has doubled from when I was playing!

Guitar will always be present, the reason being - it's an iconic image, and also a really effective instrument - it's portable, and can be made to sound like a lot of things - you can do otherworldy pads through to acoustic strumming and there aren't many instruments that can do that.

Also worth pointing out one of (if not the most) successful streaming artists of the last decade has been a little ginger guy with an acoustic guitar and a looper pedal - Ed Sheeran.

Technology has presented new instruments and new ways of making music, and agreed no one is doing the massive rock records right now, but maybe that's not a bad thing - honestly I think the opportunities for kids starting today are amazing, You have loads of free content on Youtube, you can mix and make really good music on the computer you have in your bedroom (I used to borrow a Fostex 4 track, couldn't even get my own one), that same computer can run all the plugins you need, or you pool your birthday money and get a used Helix LT.

And your few hundred $/£ guitar will be a credible instrument.

When I had my Hondo Les Paul copy (made of plywood with fake humbuckers) I would have killed for 1/2 of this. And from what I've seen people are still embracing it
 

lwknives

Experienced
Not to mention that the Radio is probably less popular than guitar with young people! Folks are streaming music on youtube, spotify, apple music ECT! Radio is background filler for people with 15 year old cars, when people want to listen to music they go online and stream it.
 

Mark-B

Experienced
Belgian dude may not be that well known stateside, but I reckon he's more well known over he.......

I think you're great. I love reading your stuff. You're not afraid to take a stand, in a world where more people should - and I think me and you share a lot in common. :0) ...But I don't agree with you on a lot of the doom-and-gloom stuff. :0) ..I just don't :0)

I went to school in England during the 70's and 80's. It was all folk and pop music back then. Rock was fringe. But it's not like it never existed.. I just wasn't subjected to it, and society kinda steered us away from it.

But, in my time, there has never been a lack of people who want to learn guitar, or a lack of guitar in music. And guitar-centric music has never been that hard to find - even back then, when I was a kid growing up

I guess people can very-easily become products of their environments.. I say that, as, back then, as a kid - as I was only hanging around those "straight-laced types" - I didn't even realize that there was emphasis on guitars in music. The heaviest thing I heard was a single chugged distorted chord in this one ABBA song - a sound which drove me nuts at the time, ... that ...until I met a dude who played some Michael Schenker for me..

o_O ...Mother-&$#!!%R! ..:eek: ...When I heard 'Into the Arena', I KNEW I wanted to do that with a guitar! It floored me!! I became obsessed with that kind of sound in music, immediately. :0)

First time I had ever heard such a thing! :)

..My Parents all-but called for an exorcist! :0)

...Guitar.. Not sure of the mechanics of it, but it reaches and attracts people like us. People who then spend the rest of our lives putting-in Masssssive amounts of time and effort learning to play the thing well, just to enjoy the hell out of playing it! :0)

And that effect "guitar" has on people? ...It's not unusual, and it's not going away.

Back then, it wasn't that Michael wasn't around though, or didn't exist.. It was just that that kind of music wasn't mainstream is all. And that was back in the mid 80's.. At a time when that kinda guitar in music ?should? ..have been considered more popular?

Seriously.. Look around.

There are LOADS of heavy metal bands out there. New ones.. Old ones still going strong. Hell, even comparing pop-music then and now - Miley Cyrus stuff has heavier guitar in it than do the bands like ABBA, Depeche Mode, Wham, Culture Club, Rick Astley and whatnot etc., which were the big deal back when..

I can't keep up with the metal scene - but it's not that it's not out there. Country Music is pretty-much all done on strings. Heavier stuff? Yes, you do tend to have to look for it. But that was true 30-40 years ago, ...and it's really not hard to find.

As for mainstream?

...Here, in the 'States, it's country music - pretty-much 24-7-365.. If you wanna work, you learn some country tunes, the locals love it. Rock music? ..not so much, not here, not locally anyway. Then :0) ...having said that, a bunch of kids - not one over the age of 16, played a local festival at the park a while back.. It was a thrash band - this, in a Very Conservative, small, country-western mountain town, where I live.

So, honestly.. Guitar-centric music? ...it's not gone. It's not going anywhere. The heavier stuff has always been - to some extent - under the radar in most locations. But it's not hard to find if you look for it. ..And for the fact that there are so many new metal bands out there - whether I gravitate to them or not - pretty-much tells the tale that there will Always be a demand, and an audience, for that kind of music.

The music industry has changed - I'll give you that. But Guitar is still a cornerstone of the music industry.

On another thread:


https://forum.fractalaudio.com/thre...-most-of-us-know-of-imho-just-so-good.157145/

How could it be? She's Great! But I had never heard of her until today!

..But, it's not like she never existed before today.....and the thing is, we could stumble upon these Phenoms every day of the week.

Guitar? And those who strive to play them exceptionally. ..The phenoms come, and they all-too soon leave us. But that instrument? It's here to stay. :0)

So Worry-Not, Muad'zin! :0)
 

Dale LeClaire

Inspired
Maybe because it's about "Katana thingamabob" and demoed by a Belgian player nobody knows about. Some 15 years ago I attended a workshop hosted by Joe Satriani in one of the local stores here in Seattle. That was back when he played Peavey JSX. I could barely squeeze through the door. I'm pretty sure the entire thing was a major fire safety violation.

Hey I was at that JSX demo too! Fun little show to see, but yeah it was absolutely packed in there.
 
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