The most extensive 2290 Stereo Digital Delay audio comparison - VP4, 2290, 2290P, 2290 DT

Jamar said:
1 was my favorite. I hope it was the cheapest one. ;)
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Thanks Jamar! You're the second person who picked 1 as a favorite. I can't reveal yet if it's the cheapest one, but I can tell you that the delays used in this test range from $199 to $3000 USD. Pretty amazing considering how close they sound to one another. There really is no bad option, but this is the extensive comparison, and I'm here for the most discerning among us in the world.
 
Bob G said:
This is awesome. I would love to hear your audio that you used in your comparison.
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I don't have the files anymore I'm afraid. This was done a long time ago. But it would've just been a pluck on a single string. I wasn't listening for tone, but rather dynamics. So I wanted to isolate each individual echo without any interference.
 
Orvillain said:
I don't have the files anymore I'm afraid. This was done a long time ago. But it would've just been a pluck on a single string. I wasn't listening for tone, but rather dynamics. So I wanted to isolate each individual echo without any interference.
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I did the same thing, plucking a single short note to be able to analyze the repeats. I didn't share those files here because I figured people wouldn't be interested in hearing it. The 2290 definitely has that sponginess in the delay repeats when you push the input hard and it helps to create a bouncy feeling as the delay repeats bounce back. The 1MHz A/D convertor is oversampling the incoming analog signal, so companding is most likely what we're hearing. "Soft" or "Spongy" are apt descriptions for how it feels to play through it and how the delay repeats respond when we dig in hard, driving the input preamp almost into the red, and the delay repeats bounce back with this texture that isn't sharp, pointed or hard on the ears, but rather smooth and textured, with enhanced harmonic overtones almost like tape saturation and tape compression. I agree that although the 2290 repeats have a high emphasis EQ brightness to them, they also have a softer transient response and a thickened texture.
 
Hi Bob! I'm very interested in your research. As a fan of delays and the TC2290, I'd love for you to share which modules and settings you used to get closer to the audio of a real TC.
I listened to all five samples, and I found sample 1 to be more crystal-clear and with more noticeable stereo spatiality.
 
tripulante.db said:
Hi Bob! I'm very interested in your research. As a fan of delays and the TC2290, I'd love for you to share which modules and settings you used to get closer to the audio of a real TC.
I listened to all five samples, and I found sample 1 to be more crystal-clear and with more noticeable stereo spatiality.
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Hi!

Thanks for sharing your opinion. Did you find you were able to hear the differences between the 5 sound clips fairly easily, or did you find it more difficult to hear the differences? I spent months working on trying to make all these devices sound the same.

I plan on sharing the blocks I use and how I use them after more folks have had a chance to weigh in with their opinions.
 
The truth is, it wasn't easy for me to differentiate the first three audio samples. It was in samples 4 and 5 that I easily noticed a loss of clarity and stereo spatiality. In any case, we're talking about very subtle, barely perceptible differences. You've undoubtedly done an extraordinary job bringing the audio from different devices together so that they sound so similar.
 
tripulante.db said:
The truth is, it wasn't easy for me to differentiate the first three audio samples. It was in samples 4 and 5 that I easily noticed a loss of clarity and stereo spatiality. In any case, we're talking about very subtle, barely perceptible differences. You've undoubtedly done an extraordinary job bringing the audio from different devices together so that they sound so similar.
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Thank you for the kind compliment. I agree that 1 & 3 have some extra clarity and stereo spatiality.
 
I listened, honestly can't tell much difference among the tracks.

I'm very curious about this. One thought I have had for a while is to replace most of my rack effects with an AXE, just haven't pulled the trigger. I have gravitated toward "less programming" in my life, but the control the AXE gives you is extraordinary. These samples may help me finally commit!
 
Lavely said:
I listened, honestly can't tell much difference among the tracks.

I'm very curious about this. One thought I have had for a while is to replace most of my rack effects with an AXE, just haven't pulled the trigger. I have gravitated toward "less programming" in my life, but the control the AXE gives you is extraordinary. These samples may help me finally commit!
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I'm glad to hear that and I hope that you're able to achieve the kind of 2290 sound that you like. All of the devices in this comparison are capable. I think the differences become more apparent in stereo, so do check the audio files out wearing your best Sunday headphones.

I was wearing a pair of Sennheiser HD490 Pro headphones when programming and dialing all of these sounds in. Something of equivalent quality will reveal some noticeable differences, especially if you haven't suffered any hearing loss and your ears are in good shape!
 
it's all in the preamp of the OG. certain high frequencies are slightly boosted which give it that "sheen" . not even the pedal sounds like it as it doesn’t seem to boost at the input stage.
I sometimes place a Dynamic Distortion block right in front of a Delay block that slightly boosts the highs and gives a Delay that extra sheen. has to be in parallel though so that the dry isn't effected by the DynDis.... works for me ;) .
 
VegaBaby said:
it's all in the preamp of the OG. certain high frequencies are slightly boosted which give it that "sheen" . not even the pedal sounds like it as it doesn’t seem to boost at the input stage.
I sometimes place a Dynamic Distortion block right in front of a Delay block that slightly boosts the highs and gives a Delay that extra sheen. has to be in parallel though so that the dry isn't effected by the DynDis.... works for me ;) .
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I'll have to try the dynamic distortion block and see how it compares with what I used. Thank you for your suggestion.

I performed an extremely detailed analysis of the analog preamp in both of my 2290 rack units because I own two of them. The preamp section is located in front of the delay line, so it affects both the dry signal and the delayed signal. It's sound emphasizes 2nd and 3rd order harmonic overtones in a similar way to tape saturation due to the network of silicon transistors and a single Zener diode. That's the "sheen" you're describing I think. It's not so much a high frequency boost, as it is an emphasis of harmonic overtones that create a resonance in the higher frequency range.

Many guitarists, including Robben Ford and The Edge prefer to pass the guitar signal through the preamp of the 2290 because of how it enhances the instrument's response and how it provides a tone that interacts with the delay repeats in a very special way that manages to create this rather bouncy feeling unique to the 2290 when hitting the input preamp nice and hard. There's an attack to it, but also a sponginess that makes it very musical texturally instead of edgy or harsh. This emphasizes the tonal quality of notes, giving them a bell-like beauty as they hit the preamp and bounce back out of the delay line.

I must say that tc electronic did a pretty remarkable job of digitally modeling these qualities from the original 2290 rack unit. It's not exactly the same, but it is close, if the gain staging is setup right.
 
Bob G said:
I'll have to try the dynamic distortion block and see how it compares with what I used. Thank you for your suggestion.

I performed an extremely detailed analysis of the analog preamp in both of my 2290 rack units because I own two of them. The preamp section is located in front of the delay line, so it affects both the dry signal and the delayed signal. It's sound emphasizes 2nd and 3rd order harmonic overtones in a similar way to tape saturation due to the network of silicon transistors and a single Zener diode. That's the "sheen" you're describing I think. It's not so much a high frequency boost, as it is an emphasis of harmonic overtones that create a resonance in the higher frequency range.

Many guitarists, including Robben Ford and The Edge prefer to pass the guitar signal through the preamp of the 2290 because of how it enhances the instrument's response and how it provides a tone that interacts with the delay repeats in a very special way that manages to create this rather bouncy feeling unique to the 2290 when hitting the input preamp nice and hard. There's an attack to it, but also a sponginess that makes it very musical texturally instead of edgy or harsh. This emphasizes the tonal quality of notes, giving them a bell-like beauty as they hit the preamp and bounce back out of the delay line.

I must say that tc electronic did a pretty remarkable job of digitally modeling these qualities from the original 2290 rack unit. It's not exactly the same, but it is close, if the gain staging is setup right.
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Maybe try the SDD Drive in front, since that's what it was created for.

Although I would assume @FractalAudio would have accounted for that in the 2290 Delay model.
 
unix-guy said:
Maybe try the SDD Drive in front, since that's what it was created for.

Although I would assume @FractalAudio would have accounted for that in the 2290 Delay model.
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The SDD Preamp was one of the first things I tried in front of the 2290 w/Mod Delay model. While it does sound good and is cool as well, it has a very different sonic character than the preamp in the 2290.
 
Bob G said:
I'll have to try the dynamic distortion block and see how it compares with what I used. Thank you for your suggestion.

I performed an extremely detailed analysis of the analog preamp in both of my 2290 rack units because I own two of them. The preamp section is located in front of the delay line, so it affects both the dry signal and the delayed signal. It's sound emphasizes 2nd and 3rd order harmonic overtones in a similar way to tape saturation due to the network of silicon transistors and a single Zener diode. That's the "sheen" you're describing I think. It's not so much a high frequency boost, as it is an emphasis of harmonic overtones that create a resonance in the higher frequency range.
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yes, that's where I place the DynDis as well, in front of the Delay block. so yes, the dry signal hits the DynDis and then the Delay block. since I'm running all my effeczs always in parallel, the actual "dry" signal still stays dry and in the end only the actual Delay repeats have the DynDis baked in. soI'm not really using it as a preamp for the whole signal as such. I'm not saying that it exctly does what the 2290 pre does, but it definitely gives Delays a certain quality...
Lexicon PCM 42 is another one of those "magic preamp" units that was sometimes used for only its preamp stage right in front of an amp...
 
VegaBaby said:
yes, that's where I place the DynDis as well, in front of the Delay block. so yes, the dry signal hits the DynDis and then the Delay block. since I'm running all my effeczs always in parallel, the actual "dry" signal still stays dry and in the end only the actual Delay repeats have the DynDis baked in. soI'm not really using it as a preamp for the whole signal as such. I'm not saying that it exctly does what the 2290 pre does, but it definitely gives Delays a certain quality...
Lexicon PCM 42 is another one of those "magic preamp" units that was sometimes used for only its preamp stage right in front of an amp...
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What do you use to separate your dry source signals so they are always running in parallel to VP4's 100% digital signal path?

I'm also a huge fan of the Lexicon PCM42 and Lexicon Prime Time M93. The stacked circuit boards in these units are scary to look at these days because there are so many IC chips on them that are no longer made or available without buying another unit to make a Frankenstein delay from.

Just powering up these 40 year old rack units gives one butterflies, and then when all the lights come on and the sound of the delay repeats is emerging, it's like God rubbing your tummy.
 
Bob G said:
What do you use to separate your dry source signals so they are always running in parallel to VP4's 100% digital signal path?

I'm also a huge fan of the Lexicon PCM42 and Lexicon Prime Time M93. The stacked circuit boards in these units are scary to look at these days because there are so many IC chips on them that are no longer made or available without buying another unit to make a Frankenstein delay from.

Just powering up these 40 year old rack units gives one butterflies, and then when all the lights come on and the sound of the delay repeats is emerging, it's like God rubbing your tummy.
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I'm on a Axe Fx III . the routing options are a little different since I'm also using the amp sims and only occasionally real amps...

yeah, those old units... love them too. I'm actually running a PCM80 SPX90 and Tri Chorus and QuadraVerb alongside the Axe....
 
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