The more I play with Helix Native, the more I truly appreciate the Axe FX

[Jason Scott]

Part of the issue I have with Helix Native is the sheer lack of versatility. Compared to the Axe, the parameters for amps, cabs and effects are exceedingly limited. Apparently, tone shaping wasn't a big consideration when designing the Helix. For instance, I use the PEQ block in Axe-Edit a lot. In Native, the options for the Parametric EQ are seriously limited. Where are the band types, such as shelving and peaking? Where's the graphic representation of the frequency spectrum? I use that in the Axe a lot.

Then there's the serious lack of tone shaping options in Native's amp block. I've become completely spoiled by the Pre & Post Power Amp GEQ as well as the Boost and Bright Switch in the Basic tab of Axe-Edit's amp block. I also like having a Cut switch and Depth knob. I use those, all of them, on a regular basis. There's simply no equivalent in Native. And Native's 'advanced' amp parameters like Sag, Bias, Ripple and Hum in the amp block don't come anywhere close to the depth offered in the Axe. Granted, some people may never need to dig into the advanced parameters in the Axe, but it's sure nice to have them if you do.

Moreover, the cab block in Native also leaves a lot to be desired. While I like the distance parameter in Native, there are a number of other parameters I could really use that just aren't there, such as room size, room level, proximity & proximity frequency, mic spacing and air.

While Axe-Edit is very well laid out and intuitively organized, Native's GUI feels cramped. Native's host window would greatly benefit from the ability to be resized in order to let the sections breathe a little and reduce scrolling. And that's the thing, I feel like I'm always having to scroll down the various control windows in order to find parameters, and that's something I truly appreciate about Axe-Edit. You don't have to scroll to find parameters in Axe-Edit. They're logically separated by tabs. And the sliders in Native definitely waste valuable screen real estate. It results in the user having to scroll up and down the parameter window in order to view and manipulate the available sliders. It's frustrating.

All in all, Native feels totally incomplete. It lacks versatility and the GUI leaves a lot to be desired. The Helix hardware has a lot of pretty lights but there's a serious lack of real substance when you start comparing it to the Axe.

 

[Architect]

Great review.
So this is what $400 gets you?

I would expect a Fractal version to cost 3x as much and be 100x more usable.

Helix- Constantly going round in circles on a downward spiral.

 

[Jason Scott]

Great review.
So this is what $400 gets you?

I would expect a Fractal version to cost 3x as much and be 100x more usable.

Helix- Constantly going round in circles on a downward spiral.

I think the price is reasonable considering the quality of the tones. I think it sounds better than any other modeling plugin I've heard, but as far as comparing it to the Axe, there's a critical lack of tone shaping versatility and depth. And sonically, it just isn't there yet.

The PC interface leaves an awful lot to be desired compared to Axe-Edit. Now, I wouldn't mind having Native's cabs in the Axe, but the cabs are really the only thing Native has going for it, in my opinion.

Assuming both units were using the same IR, I have no doubt I could match any tone created in Native using the Axe, but in my opinion Native would have a difficult, if not impossible, time matching the Axe.

Having used all of the top tier modelers currently on the market, the Axe FX is the absolute best modeler money can buy, no question. Even Kemper profiles are imparted with characteristics that make them sonically inferior to the Axe.

 

[bvaughn0402]

I think the price is reasonable considering the quality of the tones. I think it sounds better than any other modeling plugin I've heard, but as far as comparing it to the Axe, there's a critical lack of tone shaping versatility and depth. And sonically, it just isn't there yet.

Jason, would you choose it over Amplitube 4?

 

[Mesaholic]

Isn't this like comparing a Chevy to a Ferrari?

 

[Jason Scott]

Jason, would you choose it over Amplitube 4?

Based on what I've heard, yes.

 

[JJunkie]

Thanks for pointing out those limitations. It really paints a good picture of what to expect if one were thinking to jump ship. A lot of your criticisms are essentially saying that you dont like it because it isnt the same as the axe or axe edit, which is fine becsuse like you mentioned, I'm spoiled too!

 

[Jason Scott]

A lot of your criticisms are essentially saying that you dont like it because it isnt the same as the axe or axe edit, which is fine becsuse like you mentioned, I'm spoiled too!

It's hard not to compare sausage to steak if you're used to eating steak.

 

[pat6969]

Lol! The fact that Helix is kicking ass and taking names should tell you all you need to know. Lots and lots of people are using the Helix, even a lot of ex Fractal users. To say the Helix is spiraling down is so far from the truth is hurts! Lol! Get a life and let it go already. It's a good unit period. If you like Fractal more that's awesome, use it and love it. Not many share this assenine opinion. By the way, I use the AX8 so I'm not an L6 fanboi but I know crap when I smell it.

 

[Jason Scott]

Lol! The fact that Helix is kicking *** and taking names should tell you all you need to know. Lots and lots of people are using the Helix, even a lot of ex Fractal users. To say the Helix is spiraling down is so far from the truth is hurts! Lol! Get a life and let it go already. It's a good unit period. If you like Fractal more that's awesome, use it and love it. Not many share this assenine opinion. By the way, I use the AX8 so I'm not an L6 fanboi but I know crap when I smell it.

I don't think the Helix is losing market share, but I do think a lot of people have bought into the hype. There's an Axe FX vs. Helix amp modeling comparison's thread on TGP right now with samples of both modelers using the same IR and no one who's been raving about the Helix will put their money where their mouth is and try to guess which sample belongs to which modeler. I suspect that's because they're not sure and don't want to risk picking the Axe FX over the Helix.

 

[Randalljax]

I don't think the Helix is losing market share, but I do think a lot of people have bought into the hype. There's an Axe FX vs. Helix amp modeling comparison's thread on TGP right now with samples of both modelers using the same IR and no one who's been raving about the Helix will put their money where their mouth is and try to guess which sample belongs to which modeler. I suspect that's because they're not sure and don't want to risk picking the Axe FX over the Helix.

I listened I thought they actually both sounded really decent my guess was the one with more noise was likely Helix both samples would work fine in a mix though and I wouldn't bet on which one is Axe maybe my old ears are shot

 

[pat6969]

I don't think the Helix is losing market share, but I do think a lot of people have bought into the hype. There's an Axe FX vs. Helix amp modeling comparison's thread on TGP right now with samples of both modelers using the same IR and no one who's been raving about the Helix will put their money where their mouth is and try to guess which sample belongs to which modeler. I suspect that's because they're not sure and don't want to risk picking the Axe FX over the Helix.

Possibly. Or possibly the other way around. The way I see it is use whatever makes you happy. They're both top notch choices. Everyone wins when Fractal and L6 push the limits.

 

[Jason Scott]

Possibly. Or possibly the other way around. The way I see it is use whatever makes you happy. They're both top notch choices. Everyone wins when Fractal and L6 push the limits.

I don't see Line 6 pushing the limits. They have a nice hardware interface and some pretty good cabs. Other than that, their computer editor leaves quite a bit to be desired and there's a serious dearth of versatility and depth when it comes to tone shaping options. Sonically, the Axe FX models have a depth and clarity that separate them from Native if you listen with a critical ear. Some people don't / won't and that's fine, but there are many who can and will.

 

[Jason Scott]

I listened I thought they actually both sounded really decent my guess was the one with more noise was likely Helix both samples would work fine in a mix though and I wouldn't bet on which one is Axe maybe my old ears are shot

I don't think Helix sounds bad, but some people are raving about it and acting as if the Axe FX and Kemper are somehow beneath it. While they're free to think that, I attribute it to a herd mentality that's seemingly adopted the mantra 'flashy hardware and pretty lights equate to sonic superiority'.

 

[pat6969]

I don't see Line 6 pushing the limits. They have a nice hardware interface and some pretty good cabs. Other than that, their computer editor leaves quite a bit to be desired and there's a serious dearth of versatility and depth when it comes to tone shaping options. Sonically, the Axe FX models have a depth and clarity that separate them from Native if you listen with a critical ear. Some people don't / won't and that's fine, but there are many who can and will.

IMO they are the only company pushing the limits right now but that's fine you don't think so, everyone is entitled to their opinion. To say that literally tens of thousands of people are wrong about tone and you're right is quite the stretch to say the least. In any case, we could argue about this for a week and be no further ahead. Im content with my AX8 but I'm not naive enough to say it's the best option for everyone. Live and let live. Peace!

 

[Randalljax]

I don't think Helix sounds bad, but some people are raving about it and acting as if the Axe FX and Kemper are somehow beneath it. While they're free to think that, I attribute it to a herd mentality that's seemingly adopted the mantra 'flashy hardware and pretty lights equate to sonic superiority'.

I don't think the Axe or Kemper are behind at all in fact I still will give the edge to Fractal depending on the model and what your looking for
I do think you proved that they are closer than some may think

The thing with Line6 is there is room for improvement and I think they know that and will continue to refine that maybe they will allow users to tweak deeper in future who knows

One thing I will give them kudos for is they have certainly gone from being America least wanted to being pretty
Successful and Helix has certainly elevated the brand from were it was 3 years ago

 

[Jason Scott]

IMO they are the only company pushing the limits right now

Okay, well, how have they pushed the limits? They've pushed their own limits compared to previous offerings, but their editor isn't pushing the limits. They're also not pushing the limits in terms of versatility and tweakability. When using the same IR, their amp models don't sound superior and in fact a lot of them are somewhat noisy comparatively, so no, I don't think their amp models are pushing the limits. The only area I would submit that they've pushed the limits is the front panel UI.

To say that literally tens of thousands of people are wrong about tone and you're right is quite the stretch to say the least.

The proof is in the pudding. Check the results of the blind test over at TGP when the answers are revealed and judge for yourself how many on that forum are right. Like I said, some people who've been raving about the Helix on that forum won't take such a test simply because they don't know which modeler is which or are too scared to submit an answer for fear that they might pick the Axe FX. If the Helix honestly and truly sounded noticeably superior then how hard would it be to pick it out of a line-up? Generally, these people will come out of the woodwork to talk about how awesome the Helix sounds compared to everything else, but some of them are nowhere to be found when they get a chance to put their money where their mouth is.

In any case, we could argue about this for a week and be no further ahead. Im content with my AX8 but I'm not naive enough to say it's the best option for everyone. Live and let live. Peace!

The AX8 isn't going to be the best option for everybody. I'd never contend that, either. However, on the whole, when you compare functionality, versatility and effects quality, the Axe FX II is in a league all its own, in my opinion.

 

[BrownNote71]

The way I see it, Helix is currently the best bang for the buck, but not the best quality modeling for amps and effects. Plus you can make up a lot of the depth of tone on Helix by using up to four amps in a patch, which you can’t do on an AX-8.

A rising tide lifts all boats. Line 6 is expanding the modeling market, and is burdening a lot of the cost of having to educate people that modeling can surpass traditional rigs. But some of their users on TGP are offended when you tell them you think FAS modeling is superior. They’re not content with bang-for-the-buck and have leapt into “ultimate tool” territory.

 

[Jason Scott]

The way I see it, Helix is currently the best bang for the buck, but not the best quality modeling for amps and effects. Plus you can make up a lot of the depth of tone on Helix by using up to four amps in a patch, which you can’t do on an AX-8.

That's one way to shape tone, but that's not really the sort of versatility I'm necessarily referring to. For example, the EQ block doesn't include things like frequency type (eg. peaking, shelving) nor does it include a graphic representation of the frequency curve, both of which I find super useful. Parameters in the amp block, for example, like Boost, Depth, Cut & Bright Switch, Pre and Post Amp GEQ don't have an equivalent in Native, and that's just the amp block. As a side note, did you know there's no way to save effects presets? Anyway, that's the kind of versatility I'm talking about, and the ability to use up to four amps doesn't make up for that level of control, in my opinion.

 

[BrownNote71]

That's one way to shape tone, but that's not really the sort of versatility I'm necessarily referring to. For example, the EQ block doesn't include things like frequency type (eg. peaking, shelving) nor does it include a graphic representation of the frequency curve, both of which I find super useful. Parameters in the amp block, for example, like Boost, Depth, Cut & Bright Switch, Pre and Post Amp GEQ don't have an equivalent in Native, and that's just the amp block. As a side note, did you know there's no way to save effects presets? Anyway, that's the kind of versatility I'm talking about, and the ability to use up to four amps doesn't make up for that level of control, in my opinion.

I don't disagree with you at all.

I haven't tried Native, but I've owned the Helix in both Rack and Floor models. The UI on the device appears to be pretty similar to the UI in the plugin - so a lot of the hyperbole is because the Helix on-device editing is easier than what's come before. So the fact that you can copy blocks but not save them on the device itself probably makes more sense given that it was designed around hardware workflows.

Given that the Native plugin seems to have the same limitations as the hardware (on purpose so they can update all platforms simultaneously), comparing the Native experience to an Axe-Edit+HW experience isn't apples to apples. Axe-Edit was designed first and foremost as a computer editor, with a distinct UI that is considerably different than on the device itself. Native, in its current form, is first and foremost a Helix modeler, and a computer editor second.

It's interesting to see how people are reacting to this - almost across the board I've seen FAS users pointing out that the Native UI is cumbersome, limiting, etc. - and I think that's because of the different design philosophies at work. Those coming from Helix are stoked to see they have a software version of their hardware. They've never experienced a software editor thats *more* functional and user-friendly than on the device itself like what's available with Axe-Edit. And from what I can tell, the Helix doesn't become more functional when you add Native to it - unlike FAS.