RDH
Fractal Fanatic
Yep, what's the first thing done after setting up a studio room or rehearsal space? Bingo! Sound treatment. Not all rooms are equal.Eh, rooms are overrated.
Yep, what's the first thing done after setting up a studio room or rehearsal space? Bingo! Sound treatment. Not all rooms are equal.Eh, rooms are overrated.
.... and crank it up!Just get an SS power amp like a Matrix GT1600 and play through real cabs... AITR all day. Done.
EHX Magnum 44 = 150 USD
I think I disagree with almost everything in this post. IR and cab block has been improved so much in the last 2 years that the mythical 'amp in the room' is a non-issue...if you know what you're doing (but that's the rub, isn't it?)
I'm not a pro, but I respectfully disagree. I've been a lot of hours into this. I recently recorded three clips:
1- Axe with carefully chosen IRs (using amp, cab, reverb and headphones)
2- Axe with power amp and cab (not FRFR) recorded with i-Phone mic a few feet away from cab in a small room/office.
3- Axe with power amp and cab (not FRFR) recored with a high quality mic next to cab in a custom made, insulated cab box (all walls with sound absorbing foam) to remove all reflections.
Here is #1:
Here is #2:
I'll look for my #3 clip or record it again.
Keep in mind #1 may sound "better" but it uses the Ambient Stereo delay to get a more full sound. This is how I compensate to get a "cab in room" tone. #2 does not use the Ambient Stereo, but a digital modulated (2290) version with the same delay settings. I didn't want to use a stereo effect in the #2 set up because it doesn't sound right coming through a real cab. So #1 has a layer of "studio" spacial effect that is not in #2. Yet you can hear what I describe as "crispness" in #2. There is something about the power of a moving cab in a room that has yet to be captured by the Axe in my humble opinion. And BTW #2 was recorded with an iPhone which is obviously not a professional mic, and you can still hear the "in the room" effect we are all talking about.
The best sounding clip to my ears is #2. Second best was #1 and I didn't like #3 at all (would have to add effects and EQ to this). Cliff's quote above is right on the mark - the cab is sharper with more highs when recorded up close.
If I stand in my room and play with power amp and cab, the sound is just fantastic. There is this crisp, bold, clear tone that I can never get on headphones with the amp/cab modeling. You can feel the sensitivity of hitting the pick to the strings. Don't get me wrong, the Axe modeling sounds fantastic, but it's not that "cab in the room" experience. I've tried so may different IRs and settings and it's always the same result. Reverb helps, but there is some sort of crispness and spacial tone that is missing. I've even watched others' tutorials and tried their settings for "amp in the room" tone and none worked for me.
If this exists, please post a preset of what works, as I would love to see what the settings to get the in room feel.
I'm not a pro, but I respectfully disagree. I've been a lot of hours into this. I recently recorded three clips:
1- Axe with carefully chosen IRs (using amp, cab, reverb and headphones)
2- Axe with power amp and cab (not FRFR) recorded with i-Phone mic a few feet away from cab in a small room/office.
3- Axe with power amp and cab (not FRFR) recored with a high quality mic next to cab in a custom made, insulated cab box (all walls with sound absorbing foam) to remove all reflections.
Here is #1:
Here is #2:
I'll look for my #3 clip or record it again.
Keep in mind #1 may sound "better" but it uses the Ambient Stereo delay to get a more full sound. This is how I compensate to get a "cab in room" tone. #2 does not use the Ambient Stereo, but a digital modulated (2290) version with the same delay settings. I didn't want to use a stereo effect in the #2 set up because it doesn't sound right coming through a real cab. So #1 has a layer of "studio" spacial effect that is not in #2. Yet you can hear what I describe as "crispness" in #2. There is something about the power of a moving cab in a room that has yet to be captured by the Axe in my humble opinion. And BTW #2 was recorded with an iPhone which is obviously not a professional mic, and you can still hear the "in the room" effect we are all talking about.
The best sounding clip to my ears is #2. Second best was #1 and I didn't like #3 at all (would have to add effects and EQ to this). Cliff's quote above is right on the mark - the cab is sharper with more highs when recorded up close.
If I stand in my room and play with power amp and cab, the sound is just fantastic. There is this crisp, bold, clear tone that I can never get on headphones with the amp/cab modeling. You can feel the sensitivity of hitting the pick to the strings. Don't get me wrong, the Axe modeling sounds fantastic, but it's not that "cab in the room" experience. I've tried so may different IRs and settings and it's always the same result. Reverb helps, but there is some sort of crispness and spacial tone that is missing. I've even watched others' tutorials and tried their settings for "amp in the room" tone and none worked for me.
If this exists, please post a preset of what works, as I would love to see what the settings to get the in room feel.
Personally, I think your first clip blows away clip #2, however if you really want to reproduce the sound of an iPhone recording of an amp a few feet away from the cab, you can do it in the Axe. I reamped your first clip and used a Mixer block to convert the signal to mono, then added a Cab block and used Cab #460(Factory 2). I tweaked the Room/Air settings and used a few PEQ's in parallel to shape the tone a bit. I followed it up by adding a Reverb block set to Recording Studio C at the end of the parallel chain. At the end of the entire chain I used a Tone Match block. However, it's worth noting that the TM Block is guitar / pickup dependent so it obviously won't sound the same with different guitars / pickups.
Sample:
Original Clip #2:
Zenaxe, wow, that's impressive. Yes, I agree the first clip is much better, and thx for the kind words. I was just trying to illustrate what I think was missing. I obviously don't have your level of experience with sound mixing and the Axe. I can't thank you enough. You obviously put a lot of work into this. How did you use the TM block here? I've always had trouble getting that to work, so I'm doing something wrong. I prefer to try to get the "in room tone" without tone matching. Can you share the preset? I'm happy to post my preset for #1 and you can tweek it directly if you like.
I just looked and thought sure I saved that preset, but apparently I didn't, which in retrospect is undoubtedly due to updating the firmware to 4.00 Beta and resetting the unit.
With respect to the TM block, I generally bypass the Cab block, and when playing the Local signal, I bypass the TM block itself.
No worries, thx. Can you describe the set up in more detail? I didn't understand the PEQ in parallel.
Here is how I interpreted your set up:
1 - You played the clip into a mixer block to convert the signal to mono (which I obviously don't need if I'm going to update my original preset)
2 - You sent the mono signal into a Cab block (#460 - Factory 2) and adjusted the Room/Air settings for this block. [NOTE - so the end result here is two cab blocks because I used one in my original clip.] In other words you used the cab block as another EQ.
3 - You used a few PEQ's in parallel [TO THE CAB BLOCK?] to shape the tone (so the signal went into the cab above and also into a PEQ in parallel?]. Q: Do you mean multiple PEQ blocks, or you used one block and adjusted certain frequencies? Do you remember which frequencies you enhanced and by how much?
4 - You added a Reverb block set to Recording Studio C at the end of the parallel chain. Q: So both the signal from the cab and the PEQ (or multiple PEQs went into the reverb block, right?
5 - At the end of the entire chain you used a Tone Match block.
Thx!
I just looked and thought sure I saved that preset, but apparently I didn't, which in retrospect is undoubtedly due to updating the firmware to 4.00 Beta and resetting the unit.
With respect to the TM block, I generally bypass the Cab block, and when playing the Local signal, I bypass the TM block itself.
You helped me in a huge way, thank you! I just added a second "room" cab similar to the one you used, and also added another reverb (so one long and one short time reverb) and it already sounds better, even without the TM block. I'm still interested in your thoughts to my questions above, but thx again!
Oh it can be done. All you need is a box that changes size. Speaker that changes size. Speaker cones that change material. Speaker magnets that change weight. That would be a good start. Oh and speakers that change the amount of speakers.
Personally, I think your first clip blows away clip #2, however if you really want to reproduce the sound of an iPhone recording of an amp a few feet away from the cab, you can do it in the Axe. I reamped your first clip and used a Mixer block to convert the signal to mono, then added a Cab block and used Cab #460(Factory 2). I tweaked the Room/Air settings and used a few PEQ's in parallel to shape the tone a bit. I followed it up by adding a Reverb block set to Recording Studio C at the end of the parallel chain. At the end of the entire chain I used a Tone Match block. However, it's worth noting that the TM Block is guitar / pickup dependent so it obviously won't sound the same with different guitars / pickups.
Sample:
Original Clip #2:
BTW, what type of media links did you use above? What is suddenlink? Cool embedded format where you can download the clip right from this page.