The end of the "amp in th room" discussion for me

This is exactly what I would expect and your experience is exactly what I needed. Thx! The 2:90, 20/20, Hiwatt power amps are all great. But, unless you are using them with Mesa amps and Hiwatts, it won't be right. IE: I'm a big Vox guy. I can run Axe Voxes thru the EL84 20/20 but I know it won't be the same as using the Axe power sims. So, Which Matrix do I get? Any suggestions? I am typically running into cabs that will handle a max of 100w. These SS amps have huge power ratings. I don't want to blow up my speakers. What is the smart way to go SS?

Thank You!

What is your budget and does it need to be portable?

If you can afford it and weight is not an issue I would recommend Bryston.

If your budget is smaller and you need light weight, a lot of forum members like the Matrix GT1000FX.

https://usa.matrixamplification.com/rack-amplifers.html
 
Just keep control of your output levels and you'll be fine. I used an ART SLA-2 first, then a Matrix GT800FX into a 2x12 with a couple low wattage speakers and had no issues.

The Matrix into passive Xitone wedges works great for me. I think it's a really, really good solid state amp for the Axe Fx.
 
What is your budget and does it need to be portable?

If you can afford it and weight is not an issue I would recommend Bryston.

If your budget is smaller and you need light weight, a lot of forum members like the Matrix GT1000FX.

https://usa.matrixamplification.com/rack-amplifers.html

Too Funny!

I have 2 Bryston 4B SSTs in my studio I'm not even using! I had them to power a couple pairs of passive JBL monitors I don't use anymore. It didn't even occur to me but they'd be PERFECT! Thanks Guys! I'll report back when I get the Bryston hooked up. I'm SUPER excited!
 
Too Funny!

I have 2 Bryston 4B SSTs in my studio I'm not even using! I had them to power a couple pairs of passive JBL monitors I don't use anymore. It didn't even occur to me but they'd be PERFECT! Thanks Guys! I'll report back when I get the Bryston hooked up. I'm SUPER excited!

Bryston would be my first choice.

It will let the power amp sim in the Fractal shine.
 
I just started playing around with using my traditional cab and a power amp. I am really digging the tones I'm getting. But for those of you that are using a power amp with cabinet live, are you micing the cabinet? seems like running direct to FOH with not be the best option since the Fractal is no longer dialed in for FOH type of monitors.
 
I'm glad it worked out for you and you have what you want. Going back to guitar speakers is something I don't think I'll ever do. They color the sound too much for me since you can't get a Celestion 30 clean enough to sound like a Fender twin with Jensen's or Altec's. They're too different. I started the Axe-Fx journey with a VHT 2502 into two CAE cubes with vintage 30's. The amps sounded a lot alike. It was like putting ketchup on every meal. When I tried FRFR I could hear the voice of each amp for the first time. I'm not looking to change your mind. I just have a different experience. Enjoy!
 
Amp in the room boils down to 3 major factors: the speakers/cab used, the room itself, and listening volume. The cab can be further split into two factors: frequency response and dispersion pattern. IR's can recreate the frequency response for a specific mic location, but the dispersion pattern still depends solely on the physical cab used. A different dispersion pattern will fill the room with sound differently and result in a different sound and feel depending on your location in the room. So, the IR choice is the only part of "Amp in the room" that has anythingto do with the Axe. The rest is physical cab choice, room conditions, and volume level. Even with the same tube amp, a 1x12 open back cab vs a 4x12 closed back cab will give different experiences in the room. No modeler can cheat the rules of physics when it comes to sound waves pushed into a physical space.
 
I just started playing around with using my traditional cab and a power amp. I am really digging the tones I'm getting. But for those of you that are using a power amp with cabinet live, are you micing the cabinet? seems like running direct to FOH with not be the best option since the Fractal is no longer dialed in for FOH type of monitors.

A common approach is to use the FX Loop block to split the signal before a cab block.

The FX Loop out, Out 2 goes to power amp and guitar cab on stage.

The cab block with an IR goes to FOH via Out 1.
 
"Every time I get a new cab or speaker, it's like buying a cab pack but for real!" mm hmmm, the point of the axe for me was not buying and storing and dealing with 2/4/10/ cabs, and to get a different sound changing all those by hand. In 2 seconds I can get 3,000 cab combinations, not to mention amps, etc. And a cab back is a lllllittle bit cheaper, than a real cab. ( I get your point but of course its not the point of the axe fx, and as cliff says the IR's have THE MOST to do with the sound)
 
"Every time I get a new cab or speaker, it's like buying a cab pack but for real!" mm hmmm, the point of the axe for me was not buying and storing and dealing with 2/4/10/ cabs, and to get a different sound changing all those by hand. In 2 seconds I can get 3,000 cab combinations, not to mention amps, etc. And a cab back is a lllllittle bit cheaper, than a real cab. ( I get your point but of course its not the point of the axe fx, and as cliff says the IR's have THE MOST to do with the sound)

The point of the axe is whatever you want it to be. I have been collecting 2x12s and individual speakers instead of complete amps like I used to do. It puts the amp next to me and that's something I appreciate. Also, the real cab/speaker sounds a lot like the real cab/speaker. :) It's never been about cost for me, I've been retired for the last 20 years, and have a lot of time on my hands. I just enjoy playing my guitar.
 
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I'm glad it worked out for you and you have what you want. Going back to guitar speakers is something I don't think I'll ever do. They color the sound too much for me since you can't get a Celestion 30 clean enough to sound like a Fender twin with Jensen's or Altec's. They're too different. I started the Axe-Fx journey with a VHT 2502 into two CAE cubes with vintage 30's. The amps sounded a lot alike. It was like putting ketchup on every meal. When I tried FRFR I could hear the voice of each amp for the first time. I'm not looking to change your mind. I just have a different experience. Enjoy!

There is an easy solution to this. It's the EVM-12L. This speaker kicks butt and gives you everything the Axe can dish out without a lot of coloration. I'm using 2 x 12s w/ EV & Alnico Gold because I like the mix of the gold. EV & Creambacks... various combos. But, it's the EVs that define the sound (by NOT defining the sound). It's not everybody's cup of tea but it works great for me. I even replaced my Fanes in some of my Hiwatts with EVs (Gasp!). The EVs killed the Fanes. Like the post above, I have quite a few 2X12s to go with my large collection of amps and I have a "cab switcher" that allows me to pick any of 4 sets of cabs at any time. The amps all run into the cab switcher (which has 2 dummy loads to protect them) and I choose which amps and which cabs are live. So, it's a bit like having a dozen sets of IRs. However, my go-to speakers (except for Fenders and Voxes) are the EVs. In the day, I believe Yek was using EVs. Not sure if he still is...
 
EVM-12L's do sound great with tight bass, smooth high end, and lots of headroom, but they weigh about 19 lbs each! In a small 1x12, it's manageable, but in a big 4x12 box look out. A Marshall 1960A loaded with G12-T75's weighs about 82 lbs. Loaded with EVM-12L's, the weight jumps way up to about 126 lbs. In something like a Mesa oversize Recto cab you're looking at about 138 lbs loaded with the EVM's. Ouch, my back is sore just thinking about that.
 
No, you won't. You will have a super loud micced amp tone, it'll have the benefits that come from volume but if you are picky it will not be the same.

I see what you say and... yes trust me: I'm picky!
In my room I have also a wanderfull HIWATT SA212 50watt Custom Combo with 2x12 purple-back Fane... so... i know what an "amp in the room" is.

So let me be a little more specific.

I said "BIG&FAT" and then i said "loud enough". Those are 2 things.
BIG&FAT coz "size matters".
A 4x12 or 2x12 and even 1x12 guitar cabs are big air movers inside the cabs and outside the cabs in the room.
So you need BIG&FAT frfr speakers that can move the same mass of air in your room.
Not just loudness ... but air moving.

I agree with you: the cab IRs are "micced cab tones"
But there are many micing techniques: close, not so close, ambient, front, rear... and even inside the cab.
Like many ppl here i have tons of cabs packs and while some sounds like "that cab on that record", others sounds more like "that cab in your room". Some IRs sounds only "frontal" like a poster on the wall and some sounds more deep.
When we talk about a good tone we use words like "3d sound" or "360° sound" or "amp in the room"
But we are all refer to one thing: reverb. Better: micro-ambient reverb and macro-ambient reverb.

The micro-ambient reverb is inside the cab. The macro-ambient reverb is in the room.
A good IRs mix that use close micing of the cone and a little bit of rear micing of the cab can get you a good representation of the micro-ambient reverb of the cab. So you need this FIRST.

When you say "amp in the room" you think to the cab sound. WRONG!
Coz what you are talking about is: YOUR ROOM sound!
So, after the micro-ambient reverb of the cab IR (mix), you need a reverb (fx block) tweaked like the natural verb of your room (pre-delay, early reflections, low and hi freqs, ducking time and cut-off etc...)... AND.... even a micro-delay fx can help you to get YOUR ROOM ambient.

I don't want boring you with my crap english, so that said i want take another way.
What appens to your wanderfull "amp in the room" tone with your real cabs if you put a stereo reverb pedal fx and maybe even a delay in your chain?
The "amp in the room" feel is gone? YES!
Ok... that's what i'm talking about!
 
The biggest advantage of an axe fx is the modeling of preamp and poweramp. The way you drive the poweramp makes the sound of the amp. Best results you get with a neutral linear SS Amp. I have had a matrix amp and it is a very good amp. I changed to a S.M.S.L because it's small and light - and cheap. We did a blind test between matrix and s.m.s.l - clear winner was the s.m.s.l. For live use it's a bit tricky to mount into a rack, for retired home users it's perfect.

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/post-your-rig.15985/page-59#post-1339167

Some Cliff Infos

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/low-cut-high-cut.119906/

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/low-cut-high-cut.119906/#post-1425987

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/low-cut-high-cut.119906/page-4#post-1426474
 
This is exactly what I would expect and your experience is exactly what I needed. Thx! The 2:90, 20/20, Hiwatt power amps are all great. But, unless you are using them with Mesa amps and Hiwatts, it won't be right. IE: I'm a big Vox guy. I can run Axe Voxes thru the EL84 20/20 but I know it won't be the same as using the Axe power sims. So, Which Matrix do I get? Any suggestions? I am typically running into cabs that will handle a max of 100w. These SS amps have huge power ratings. I don't want to blow up my speakers. What is the smart way to go SS?

Thank You!

Check this out S.M.S.L. 2 x 160 Watt

http://r.ebay.com/nOwar8

I use it with a suhr 1x12 cab
 
Just query "amp in the room" by member fractalaudio. Cliff has said over and over again, if you want amp in the room, use a power amp and cab. It's in many threads.

I wish FRFR did sound/feel the same to me just for the space it would save! :)
 
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@krcassid replacing Fanes with EV's???? blasphempy! lol

Actually more stars are playing with replacement speakers in their vintage amp rigs than most people realize.

When you see that old tolex and recognize the amp, you assume its an old vintage cab with vintage speakers; but often that is not the case.
 
In the day, I believe Yek was using EVs. Not sure if he still is...

Yes, I still have one in my 2x12.
Nothing beats an EVL at high volume IMO.
But not so much at low volume, so I use another speaker in my 1x12.
My main IR (an OwnHammer mix) also has an EVL in it.

I still use a guitar cab for stage monitoring most of the times. The IR is for FOH and at home.

Matrix is great, light and low maintenance.
But I've switched to a Fryette Power Station II recently.
It's larger (2U), considerable heavier and has got a tube which will require maintenance over time.
But even then: the improvement is very noticeable (to me at least) and that counts.
 
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