The Elusive "Tube-ry Feel" of Axe-Fx III

I have a couple of Mesa tube heads that I really love. I run these with my Waza TAE. The sound is like nothing else. Seriously.
Over the years, I have had several Kemper units, as well as a couple of Helix units. I liked the Helix far better than the Kemper. That being said, I ordered my Axe III 2 years ago and I still have it today. I never owned a Fractal product previously so this was a big chance for me to take.

For me, it is really a special sounding unit and so powerful. Running through the same Waza unit into the return line and out to my cabinet all the while comparing back and forth between the model of the amps vs. the real thing, it sounds great. The only person that will notice the feel difference is yourself. Other than that, I have full confidence using either setup when I play live or rehearse. It's just nice to have a couple of choices. I'm more of a high gain/hard rock/metal player so the discrepancies are probably not as apparent.

The power in the III is the ease of routing, superb quality models, easy editing, amazing effects, and the multitude of adjustments you can make. This thing has so many options it is dizzying but the great thing is, you don't need to worry about option paralysis. You use what you need, keep it simple or dive deeper and keep rocking because at the end of the day, it sounds fabulous.

The folks on this forum have been super helpful anytime I have required it.
 
1. What's a heavy hitter ? Do you mean playing hard or digging in most of the time? If so, then I understand what you're saying.
2. High gain definitely has its own feel that still needs to be modelled otherwise it will feel too stiff and immediate. If I turn power amp modelling off in the axe fx and play through the ss power amp it is exactly as you describe SS feel.
3. I agree with you on SS power feeling flat if the power amp modelling in the unit isn't robust.

I say try it out. You might find what you're looking for and if not at least you gave it a chance and can send it back. In case you're wondering, I play ch1 clean, ch2 crunch, and ch3 mark iv mode on my Mark V. It's not all high gain.
1. Yep :)
2. You are right, I guess I don't play much high gains.
3. Sounds like you are happy with AXE III in term of the feel, I think I will just order one now, thanks :)

I have a couple of Mesa tube heads that I really love. I run these with my Waza TAE. The sound is like nothing else. Seriously.
Over the years, I have had several Kemper units, as well as a couple of Helix units. I liked the Helix far better than the Kemper. That being said, I ordered my Axe III 2 years ago and I still have it today. I never owned a Fractal product previously so this was a big chance for me to take.

For me, it is really a special sounding unit and so powerful. Running through the same Waza unit into the return line and out to my cabinet all the while comparing back and forth between the model of the amps vs. the real thing, it sounds great. The only person that will notice the feel difference is yourself. Other than that, I have full confidence using either setup when I play live or rehearse. It's just nice to have a couple of choices. I'm more of a high gain/hard rock/metal player so the discrepancies are probably not as apparent.

The power in the III is the ease of routing, superb quality models, easy editing, amazing effects, and the multitude of adjustments you can make. This thing has so many options it is dizzying but the great thing is, you don't need to worry about option paralysis. You use what you need, keep it simple or dive deeper and keep rocking because at the end of the day, it sounds fabulous.

The folks on this forum have been super helpful anytime I have required it.
Yeah, me too, but I like Helix much better than Kemper because I can't stand's Kemper's workflow... In your experience, how close can you get with AEX III to your favorate Mesa in term of feel? What's that setup? :)
 
the feel is hard to tune in since the AFX3 has a level knob that keeps your face attached, the MV can be falling apart but you wouldn't know it beause it's quiet and power amp distortion at low volume basically sounds the same as some circuit bent garbage breaking, the difference being when it's 100 watts there are lots of shades of pumping and dynamics in between off and crappy.

Best way i've found to dial in the master volume is level on 0 dB and MV off. Turn your monitoring system up to where when MV cracks open to 0.1, it's already LOUD. Then as you play and get a feel for how the MV feels at 0.1, turn the MV up in little increments and compensate by sneaking level back down, keeping everything loud. It will all sound good since it's LOUD, and loud equals mo better, but since it's loud you get a good perspective on how it f e e l s too. The MV sweet spot for 99.9% of amps are between 0ff and 3, there's a whole universe of variety and dynamics shades in there, and they all respond differently with the tone knobs at different MV positions.

Good thing about AFX3 is that once you find your favorite MV sweet spot for the feel you won't ever have to look for it again, or wait for the tubes to warm up, or be frustrated that your load box neuters the tone, or getting a divorce because she just can't take the noise anymore...
 
The only way to describe it with something I've had direct experience with is playing through a Fender Hot Rod Deluxe and a Dr. Z Carmen Ghia. Both sound "tubey" but there's definitely something about the tone of the Carmen Ghia that feels more "3D", something different in a good way than the HRD. The Dr. Z did sound better. I experienced the same thing going from the AX8 to the Axe III.

Whether this meets or exceeds your experience with the Helix is something only you can determine once you've had the opportunity to play through the Axe III or FM3. While a lot of people seem to prefer the Axe over other modelers, Fractal products are not the end-all for everyone. If the Helix ultimately delivers the feel you like then stick with it. There are lots of guys who are extremely happy playing through a Hot Rod Deluxe and get some great tones.

At the end of the day they're all tools and are very capable of doing the job. Doesn't mean we have to be one trying to defend our position.
 
1. Yep :)
2. You are right, I guess I don't play much high gains.
3. Sounds like you are happy with AXE III in term of the feel, I think I will just order one now, thanks :)


Yeah, me too, but I like Helix much better than Kemper because I can't stand's Kemper's workflow... In your experience, how close can you get with AEX III to your favorate Mesa in term of feel? What's that setup? :)
If you are gigging and want a light footprint, I would hold out for the FM3. Otherwise, if you want tons of effects and possibilities then go with the AXE3. Or if you want it really quick you can also go with the AXE3. Either way you can't go wrong. I have both as well as a Helix.
 
I have the output mode set to SS amp + cab and no speaker compression, which means the other speaker parameters (compliance and time const) should have no influence. Speaker compression seems to tame the highs considerably imo. Furthermore, I feel like I shouldn't need it since the natural effect of speaker compression only emerges at very high volumes and should also happen naturally if I would run the Powerstage very loud.
It would indeed be interesting to see if the correct impedance curve would improve things, even though there seems to be quite a few 4x12 impedance curves in the device already, which should give a feeling of how things change.
When output mode is set to "SS pwr amp + cab" the other parameters still work, the only thing that's deactivated is the compression, but compression is not the only thing that the speaker comp knob does. It still simulates the variation on the impedance curve based on the signal level, and some other interactions between the speaker and the power amp.
The difference is hearable and it is something that improves the feel for me.
Speaker compliance is quite powerful too for tweaking rhe feel.
 
Am I the only one not constantly tweaking my presets? I usually turn it on and say "yep, still sounds incredible" then play my guitar. The only time anything gets tweaked, and its usually jist the output EQ on the amp block, is after firmware updates.

This has been the main selling point to me for fractal. I used to turn knobs on my tube amp, always having to compromise in some way. With the fractal Im able to control my tone like Im in a studio environment, eqs, filters, passes, cuts, gates, etc. It always sounds good, very consistent from day to day.

Yep...I'm with ya. That's the great thing about the Axe FX is once its dialed in there's no reason to mess with it. Consistency day after day night after night. Its from HEAVEN!!! :D
 
is it tube feel or sitting next to a cab feel? OP says he gets it when plugging into the return of an amp, which stands to reason he's using the amp to monitor as well.
 
is it tube feel or sitting next to a cab feel? OP says he gets it when plugging into the return of an amp, which stands to reason he's using the amp to monitor as well.
For me, it's not just the AITR (amp in the room), it's the more spongy response I learned to associate with a good tube power section.

I pretty much gave up on FRFRs, I either use good old guitar cab or Powercabs.
 
There are many times for me, still using my AX8, when I get the whole Genesis thing going on: "more like Gabriel than Gabriel", or whatever the quote was.
 
When output mode is set to "SS pwr amp + cab" the other parameters still work, the only thing that's deactivated is the compression, but compression is not the only thing that the speaker comp knob does. It still simulates the variation on the impedance curve based on the signal level, and some other interactions between the speaker and the power amp.
The difference is hearable and it is something that improves the feel for me.
Speaker compliance is quite powerful too for tweaking rhe feel.

I will have to experiment with that, thanks!
 
For me, it's not just the AITR (amp in the room), it's the more spongy response I learned to associate with a good tube power section.

I pretty much gave up on FRFRs, I either use good old guitar cab or Powercabs.

+1

Tube amps feels really different than my axe fx.
Axe fx has avantages of course.
While I love my tube amps I still prefer on a real cab plus microphone
Loadbox + IR give me more a "DI" sound.
It sounds too perfect, i love the dirt from a miked cab (room influence or bleed)
 
+1

Tube amps feels really different than my axe fx.
Axe fx has avantages of course.
While I love my tube amps I still prefer on a real cab plus microphone
Loadbox + IR give me more a "DI" sound.
It sounds too perfect, i love the dirt from a miked cab (room influence or bleed)

Have you adjusted room size and air parameters in the cab block?
 
Sure, but did you try it?
I m using an axe fx since ten years so yes.
Thanks

Listen to this video:



Real amps and at 26'10 switch to IR's
The beautiful raw and punchy sound become almost perfect.
Boring and less character to the sound.
I know its not the same cab than on the IR, bla bla, but it would be the same with all IR's (i have tried a lot and even made my own IR's)

Thats always the same conclusion to my ears.
IR doesnt sound like a great cab miked in a great room.
It plays a big part on the feeling (and pleasure).

I m not talking about the "in the room" feeling, thanks in advance for your helpful comment coming next ;)
I m talking about a good miced cab in a recording situation
 
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I know its not the same cab than on the IR, bla bla, but it would be the same with all IR's (i have tried a lot and even made my own IR's)

Thats always the same conclusion to my ears.
IR doesnt sound like a great cab miked in a great room.
It plays a big part on the feeling (and pleasure).
I agree with this - I think, the amp modelling in the Axe is fantastic. The speaker modelling is better in Axe than other modellers/speaker simulators, but it is still lacking some magic.
 
I have had a Kemper, Helix stomp (sold both) repurchased a Helix Stomp and I have an Axe Fx III. I’ve been able to dial in (my sound) now with the Helix Stomp. To me, it feels just like a tube amp and notes just float off my hands. I cannot, for the life of me, get that same feeling from the Axe Fx.
I’m sure that’s user error on my part...
 
I played a Helix for a couple of years and I agree you can get good tones out of it. Compared to the Axe FX 3, you have to work way harder to get there. I’ve seen YouTube videos where they have Kemper, Helix and Axe FX 3 all running into a DAW and using the same IR and getting really close tonally. But I’m not sure using the IR in the DAW is the same. I wasn’t able to see how long it took to match them up and get them sounding similar. I only play through FRFR I had a power cab for a bit but didn’t like it. I imagine if I was only going to use that it would be fine but the complication of getting a good sound for that that also translates to FOH direct, too much work. The biggest difference I’ve found with Axe FX 3 to Helix this; Helix you‘re tweaking and tweaking to get the tone useable. Axe FX 3 it’s hard to get to a tone you don’t like. I will also say the drive pedals in the Helix were crap compared to Axe FX 3. I’d spend hours trying to get a Helix drive pedal to sound good, trying them all out etc. In the Axe they all sound good, immediately. You’re just tweaking to make it better or get exactly what you’re looking for. Which brings me to the down side of Axe FX 3. If i set out to create a certain tone for a song, it takes almost as long because i get distracted from the task. I pull up an amp and cab and get immediately inspired and go off on tangents as opposed to focusing on what I set out to do. I’m also a little long in the tooth and have been playing for more years than I care to admit. Had a lot of great Tube amps over the years Hi Watts, Marshalls, Mesas, Fenders... Loved some of them, liked most of them. I don’t notice any lack of dynamic feel with the Axe FX 3. It’s quite amazing to me. Granted that could be partially because I’m not doing side by side but if the unit has great feel it has great feel. I think it’s the feel that makes it inspiring to play. I would agree with unix-guy the feel comes from the unit and the fact that you are just making that louder through a solid state FRFR after the fact isn’t affecting the feel. in other words if you‘re talking about the way the power amp responds to picking attack for instance, it doesn’t get eliminated just because it got passed through a transparent amplification system. If you‘re relying on that transparent power amp to get the response in the first place, that’s a different story.
 
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