The Elusive "Tube-ry Feel" of Axe-Fx III

[DLC86]

One more question for you guys? With which output system do you have the best feel with your Axe? e.g. headphone, studio monitor, SS+Cab or FRFR?

Definitely power amp + guitar cab for me

 

[bdrepko]

One more question for you guys? With which output system do you have the best feel with your Axe? e.g. headphone, studio monitor, SS+Cab or FRFR?

Honestly, I like it both FRFR and through a power amp and cab equally. I guess I have been running FRFR so long I have gotten used to the sound.

 

[Budda]

I have a powercab+, but I've spent so much time tracking ideas that I only fire it up to teach a lesson a week. I have mackie CR4's and they are doing the job just fine for low level recording.

 

[jlynnb1]

good question. There is no equivalent compression in the Axe Fx to the red squeeze in the helix. There is a model of the Dynacomp in the Axe but it reacts differently. There is also no amp equivalent in the Axe for what I use. When you’ve found your sound it’s undeniable. You don’t have to search anymore.

so it's less about the Fractal and any FW changes and more about your personal perference

 

[Mohi]

I want an amp that can emulate the great tones, convenience, consistency, flexibility and at the same time feel than my Axe Fx or even good plugins like S-Gear or Mercuriall.

 

[Neill00]

Honestly, I like it both FRFR and through a power amp and cab equally. I guess I have been running FRFR so long I have gotten used to the sound.

Probably because with the Axe FX it’s an easy sound to get used to. Or, maybe an easy sound to love. I don’t bother with the cab thing at all, I prefer to just tweak for one medium. I haven’t found an IR where I could just disengage it and get the same sound out of a cab. If I just tweak for FRFR, I have a pretty good idea how my tone is going to sound FOH or if I just need a backline I can put an FRFR up on a stick. It also translates pretty well to headphones and IEMs.

 

[Mark Al]

I received my AXE FX-III yesterday, and have spent about 8 hours on it, after unboxing, upgrading firmware to 12.07

This is my initial impression with the III: it definitely feels different than Helix, I have to say, as far as "feel" is concerned, in general it feels better than Helix, and it feels closer to tube amps than any modeler I have played before. (Being a long time HX user and fan, this says a lot...)

It provides a little extra sponginess and resistance from the string, and gives my finger/pick more space to explore the dynamics, and this is what I use to attribute to power tube response. This feel difference when compared to HX directly is NOT so subtle to me, I easily feels it when either playing with my headphone (Etymotic ER4SR, a true FRFR among headphones by the way), or my Powercab212.

The extra in feel sometimes feels like opening a new dimension for inspiration, i.e. it feels more inspirational to play, and this is ultimate what "feel" is all about.

I compared AXE III with HX stomp in both setups with a few amps, including Deluxe Reverb, Plexi Jump (the new Triple Crown 3 is really good). I don't need to tweak any advanced settings before the difference in feel becomes obvious to me. I have to say I was not disappointed, AXE III is quite extraordinary in the amp modeling. Hat off to you Cliff, @FractalAudio

A few minor annoyance:
1. When Cab block in AXE III Edit is highlighted, my 2019 Macbook Pro fans start going crazy after a few minutes and the computer becomes super hot. It doesn't do this if I don't highlight Cab block.
2. Many factory presets applies no high/low cuts, and sounds fizzy, hash and boomy at the same time, when using headphone. Most of these are medium to high gain tones, and they are not even close to being usable ( I am using a Suhr Tele)
3. All these IRs, they are not as well organized as Helix stock cabs, trying them out one by one is a hit or miss and extremely time consuming. I generally prefer IRs shot about 6 inch away from the cab, but it appears most of stock IRs are shot super close range, and the range is not specified, so there is no easy way to me to quickly filter out them... Personally I think this is pretty glaring user-ability issue, AXE needs a way to organize the IRs systematically, so users can develop a consistent methodology for IR selection. Trying out one by one by ear is just super counter productive... In fact, Helix stack cabs have A LOT more IRs than Axe III, but it's well organized and easy to navigate.

That being said, when using Powercab212, all I need is to disable cabinet modeling, then all the factory preset I tried are instantly usable, and a few tweaking from there make it sounds and feels pretty good.

 

[Digital Man]

I received my AXE FX-III yesterday, and have spent about 8 hours on it, after unboxing, upgrading firmware to 12.08.

This is my initial impression with the III: it definitely feels different than Helix, I have to say, as far as "feel" is concerned, in general it feels better than Helix, and it feels closer to tube amps than any modeler I have played before. (Being a long time HX user and fan, this says a lot...)

It provides a little extra sponginess and resistance from the string, and gives my finger/pick more space to explore the dynamics, and this is what I use to attribute to power tube response. This feel difference when compared to HX directly is NOT so subtle to me, I easily feels it when either playing with my headphone (Etymotic ER4SR, a true FRFR among headphones by the way), or my Powercab212.

The extra in feel sometimes feels like opening a new dimension for inspiration, i.e. it feels more inspirational to play, and this is ultimate what "feel" is all about.

I compared AXE III with HX stomp in both setups with a few amps, including Deluxe Reverb, Plexi Jump (the new Triple Crown 3 is really good). I don't need to tweak any advanced settings before the difference in feel becomes obvious to me. I have to say I was not disappointed, AXE III is quite extraordinary in the amp modeling. Hat off to you Cliff, @FractalAudio

A few minor annoyance:
1. When Cab block in AXE III Edit is highlighted, my 2019 Macbook Pro fans start going crazy after a few minutes and the computer becomes super hot. It doesn't do this if I don't highlight Cab block.
2. Many factory presets applies no high/low cuts, and sounds fizzy, hash and boomy at the same time, when using headphone. Most of these are medium to high gain tones, and they are not even close to being usable ( I am using a Suhr Tele)
3. All these IRs, they are not as well organized as Helix stock cabs, trying them out one by one is a hit or miss and extremely time consuming. I generally prefer IRs shot about 6 inch away from the cab, but it appears most of stock IRs are shot super close range, and the range is not specified, so there is no easy way to me to quickly filter out them... Personally I think this is pretty glaring user-ability issue, AXE needs a way to organize the IRs systematically, so users can develop a consistent methodology for IR selection. Trying out one by one by ear is just super counter productive... In fact, Helix stack cabs have A LOT more IRs than Axe III, but it's well organized and easy to navigate.

That being said, when using Powercab212, all I need is to disable cabinet modeling, then all the factory preset I tried are instantly usable, and a few tweaking from there make it sounds and feels pretty good.

12.08 is a beta release. I’m going back to 12.06

 

[Mark Al]

12.08 is a beta release. I’m going back to 12.06

Sorry I meant 12.07

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

That being said, when using Powercab212, all I need is to disable cabinet modeling, then all the factory preset I tried are instantly usable, and a few tweaking from there make it sounds and feels pretty good.

If I read right from context, you had cab sims in the presets on and cab modeling in the PowerCab at the same time? If so, that would definitely mess with the sound.

Welcome aboard, and happy tweaking!

Also, there is a search feature that does a %keyword% search on the IR name, which generally includes the speaker compliment and type, which helps a lot.

 

[Mark Al]

If I read right from context, you had cab sims in the presets on and cab modeling in the PowerCab at the same time? If so, that would definitely mess with the sound.

Welcome aboard, and happy tweaking!

Also, there is a search feature that does a %keyword% search on the IR name, which generally includes the speaker compliment and type, which helps a lot.

Thanks Joe Nope, I have cabinet modeling on only when using headphones. I have it off when using Powercab 212's speaker modes. If I have that wrong, it definitely sounds terrible

 

[unix-guy]

1. When Cab block in AXE III Edit is highlighted, my 2019 Macbook Pro fans start going crazy after a few minutes and the computer becomes super hot. It doesn't do this if I don't highlight Cab block.

I saw a few comments like this in the last few days regarding the FM3... Seems to be specific to Mac users, too.

You might want to report this as a bug

I generally prefer IRs shot about 6 inch away from the cab, but it appears most of stock IRs are shot super close range

Most recorded guitar is done pretty close to the speaker.

I've never seen IRs listed from any IR vendor that listed the distance from the speaker. What IRs do have you used previously that gave you that detail? If you have them in WAV format you can probably convert them for use on the Axe Fx.

As far as the IR organization, have you explored the ability to filter and search?

Most of the factory IRs are from 3rd party creators and follow their naming conventions.

 

[Mark Al]

I saw a few comments like this in the last few days regarding the FM3... Seems to be specific to Mac users, too.

You might want to report this as a bug

Most recorded guitar is done pretty close to the speaker.

I've never seen IRs listed from any IR vendor that listed the distance from the speaker. What IRs do have you used previously that gave you that detail? If you have them in WAV format you can probably convert them for use on the Axe Fx.

As far as the IR organization, have you explored the ability to filter and search?

Most of the factory IRs are from 3rd party creators and follow their naming conventions.

RedWirez IRs do that, I love their Vintage package, those IRs shot at 6 inchs sounds way more balanced and needs much less work/cuts to sound good.

Yeah, I glanced through all the IRs and their origins, now I have a rough idea what to look for, it'd need some experience and time to get familiar with many of them. I imported my own favorite IRs for now to get things up and running.

yeah, I did filter and search, it works alright once I learn some of the naming conventions, however, it's not as user friendly as Helix's stock cabs. Where I choose a cab, pick a mic, then adjust distance, and finally low/high cuts, it allows me to have a consistent workflow, and when having certain tone in head, I sort of know which cab and mic combination to start experimenting with...

Personally, my past experience with OH IRs, they are boomy and sounds like full of reflections, different IR venders provides IRs of very different qualities even though they were shot from similar cabs, and this could be quite confusing until time is spent to understand the characteristics of different venders.... I don't worry about finding the right IRs as I have a ton in my collection, I just don't enjoy the time consuming processing of auditioning them.

Auditioning IRs in Helix is a lot less practical, so I gave it up early and learned how to navigate around Helix stock cab methodically, which really pays off. With Axe III, the auditioning part is at least easier

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

RedWirez IRs do that, I love their Vintage package, those IRs shot at 6 inchs sounds way more balanced and needs much less work/cuts to sound good.

+1 on RedWirez. I tend to use the closer ones (1" or 2"), but the sets I have go clear back to 12 inches away.

 

[reclavea]

I'm a little bit of an oddball in this group because I run a stereo pedalboard into the Axe III (using two inputs on the Axe). I've had Helix, Kemper and a bunch of great amps (BadCat, Two Rock, Matchless & Welagen - still have the Matchless and Welagen).

I completely agree with you in regards to feel... Helix felt least like an amp to me, Kemper was better, but every amp had a similar feel. Axe III is the only one I've used that feels like the real thing. It's dynamic, responsive and touch sensitive, and best of all takes pedals as well as the real thing.

I posted this in another thread, but this was my first shot a some Dumble SSS type tones. The best clip where I think you can even "hear the feel" is the last of the three starting at about 1:27. I'm not a huge John Mayer fan, so don't expect the playing to be right, or very good, haha.

Are these clips of your pedal board setup through the AxeIII?

 

[ethomas1013]

I saw a few comments like this in the last few days regarding the FM3... Seems to be specific to Mac users, too.

What @Mark Al is describing is not the same, unless you are describing a different thread than the one I'm thinking of. The problem that I saw reported in the FM3 section had to do with the parameter value scrolling after typing in a value when using the Magic Mouse (which he may or may not be using with his MacBook). No one in that thread said anything about the Cab Block specifically, the Mac fans "going crazy after a few minutes", nor anything about the computer getting hot. This sounds like something entirely different. I cannot reproduce what he is reporting using a 2019 iMac, but that's not the same computer as a MacBook Pro. Is there a different thread describing the same thing Mark Al reported?

 

[Andy Eagle]

Axe does not and never will feel the same as a tube amp turned up nor can IRs recreate the feel of 4x12 cabs back through monitors.
That is NEVER going to happen BUT it can be and is a viable alternative that can sound as good or for all intents and purposes the same.
You simply have to accept that it is different. A great feel can be got but it is not the same.

 

[Budda]

Axe does not and never will feel the same as a tube amp turned up nor can IRs recreate the feel of 4x12 cabs back through monitors.

Maybe not for you. Drats, no shrug emoji.

As for the "it won't feel like a 412" put a monitor or two at 121dB 5ft away aimed up, face away from the speakers and hit a power chord. Might be closer than you think.

 

[Mark Al]

Axe does not and never will feel the same as a tube amp turned up nor can IRs recreate the feel of 4x12 cabs back through monitors.
That is NEVER going to happen BUT it can be and is a viable alternative that can sound as good or for all intents and purposes the same.
You simply have to accept that it is different. A great feel can be got but it is not the same.

Not sure about 4x12 yet, but playing it through a PowerCab212 feels quite satisfying, eg feels closer to tube amp than my Helix.

 

[unix-guy]

What @Mark Al is describing is not the same, unless you are describing a different thread than the one I'm thinking of. The problem that I saw reported in the FM3 section had to do with the parameter value scrolling after typing in a value when using the Magic Mouse (which he may or may not be using with his MacBook). No one in that thread said anything about the Cab Block specifically, the Mac fans "going crazy after a few minutes", nor anything about the computer getting hot. This sounds like something entirely different. I cannot reproduce what he is reporting using a 2019 iMac, but that's not the same computer as a MacBook Pro. Is there a different thread describing the same thing Mark Al reported?

I don't know... I tried searching for the posts after @Mark Al posted his bug thread so I could link them, but I came up short

I definitely saw a couple people post that if they selected the Cab (or maybe Amp) block that their fans would engage and stay on and would stop if they selected another block.

Edit:

I just did a wider search... The issue was for Axe Fx III and Axe-Edit, not FM3.

It was posted in this thread:

https://forum.fractalaudio.com/threads/axe-edit-iii-0-08-21-cpu-usage.142098/post-1930136

Which is older, and was fixed... And it was Mark that added a new entry (which I missed) and then another user said he has the same issue.

So... It's happened before and been fixed. Possibly it got reintroduced.