The 'Best' use of Scenes - Discuss :o)

Radley

Radley

Experienced
I have yet to really delve into the use of Scenes, but I am starting to become interested in the possibilities, and I would love to get some real world input from those who are effectively using them:

The idea that got me interested is this - rather than having whole banks dedicated to certain genres, having a single preset (with scenes) dedicated to cover all sounds needed. Question: Is this possible without a lot of limitations, and what is a typical setup strategy using the MFC-101?

Any input would be appreciated!
 
I usually have one preset that I use to cover all my basic sounds: clean, rhythm, lead. I will also make presets on a per song basis if I need different effects or specific delay times. I always strive for gapless audio so I never switch presets mid song. I use the bottom 5 switches for scenes and the rest as IA.
 
Previously, I had patches which had scenes laid out as follows:

1 - Clean
2 - Crunch rhythm.
3 - Harder rhythm.
4 - Crunchy solo.
5 - Harder solo.

I would have two amps in there in order to have a nice clean amp (e.g. Fender twin) and a more rocky amp (e.g. Friedman BE). The scenes switched and amps in and out as required. For the solo modes, it would also trigger a boost to the gain and also the overall volume, as well as switch in delay. One switch equalling lots of stomp boxes being pressed, essentially!

Right now, it's a bit more simple. I've got each preset predicated around a general genre (e.g. clean, 80s rock, harder rock, METAAAHHHL) and I intend to have the scenes work like this:

1. Clean (again, a different amp model for Fender-y cleans)
2. Distorted (just how much depends upon the genre of the patch)
3. Lead (and in come the stomp boxes!)
 
I like to keep it simple - my scenes are different variations on the same sound. More gain, more reverb, delay, drive pedal, sometimes even a different cab.
 
I have my Axe-FX II just over 2 weeks now. The capabilities possessed by the "Scenes" function (along with sound quality & versatility) was a large part of my decision.
My scenes are set up as:
1: Clean
2: Clean + boost + Delay
3: Crunch
4: Distorted rhythm
5: Distorted Lead + boost + delay

Depending on the song preset I'll switch in and out effects specific to it.
 
All my presets are essentially the same in a template format and I just add/modify amp/cab blocks...My scenes thus far... I use 2 IA's on MFC to bank up/down scenes...

1. Standard preset with expression for time based effects
2. " " with expression as wammy
3. " " with pitch block enabled for Eb tuning (1/2 step down songs)
4. " " with pitch block enabled for D tuning (1 step down) songs
5. " " with pitch block set to octave effect
6. " " Identical to Scene 1 so I don't have to hop 4 buttons back during a song
 
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I'm still struggling with this. Five scenes seems to be the magic number--more is too much to keep track of.

The trick is having a consistent pattern of button locations between different patches with scenes so I don't forget which button to push. Sometimes I wish I had gotten that footboard with the little alpha displays over each button....
 
ElectricPhase said:
I'm still struggling with this. Five scenes seems to be the magic number--more is too much to keep track of.

The trick is having a consistent pattern of button locations between different patches with scenes so I don't forget which button to push. Sometimes I wish I had gotten that footboard with the little alpha displays over each button....
Click to expand...

Exactly! I added that I have Scene 6 and 1 identical so I don't have to hop 4 buttons back during a song :)
 
I would say the best use of scenes depends on your personal need. If you are a bedroom player, you might not need scenes at all except for the fun of setting them up. If you jam with friends, scenes can give you a much broader palette of tones from fewer presets. In a pro setting, scenes can be indispensable. If you have a complex highly integrated multi-device rig, scenes bring a kind of central authority, plus instant switching times, greater ease of use, and reduced programming maintenance.

Tell us about your playing in context and I'll be able to better answer your question.
 
My two hours of cover band material at this point is contained within one preset and 8 scenes. I have arranged my board to go from left to right (clean -> dirty). The two bottom rows directly access Scenes 1-8. I have switches 5 and 10 disabled. This is because I have scene 1 and 5 lined up (on IA's 1 and 6). I also have direct access to my most used effects so I can punch in and out as needed. It looks something like this:

------------------TMP - TUN
DRV - FLG - DLY - DLY - BST
SC5 - SC6 - SC7 - SC8 - OFF
SC1 - SC2 - SC3 - SC4 - OFF

I keep them lined up because 1 and 5 are the same tone...but added effects.

SC1 - Clean w/ chorus
SC5 - Clean w/ chorus & ADD delay

SC2 - Driven amp w/o drive
SC6 - Driven amp w/o drive ADD delay

SC3 - Driven amp w/ drive
SC7 - Driven amp w/ drive ADD delay

SC4 - Driven amp w/ drive, delay ADD boost
SC8 - Driven amp w/ drive ADD multidelay

I have a volume pedal in a post position active and an auto-engaging wah for my other expression pedal. In essence I use 3 main sounds, 3 modifications of those sounds...and 2 special patches.
 
ElectricPhase said:
@ J-Beard: That's a really nice and clean layout. Any chance you might post the patch for us to goof around with?
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+1 for this.

I was just thinking about this and PM another member about the agony of choice.

J-Beard - I am thinking of doing something like your layout above and adding the Roadrunner's extension model to the left to add 4 IA Preset select switches. Waddaya think?

PST4 --------------------- TMP - TUN

PST3 - DRV - FLG - DLY - DLY - BST

PST2 - SC5 - SC6 - SC7 - SC8 - OFF

PST1 - SC1 - SC2 - SC3 - SC4 - OFF

EDIT: not sure if I'll need all 8 scenes so SC7 and SC8 may become something like CHR and RNG, etc.

Also, if I remember one of Ckark Kent's recent presets correctly, you can swap out not just amp-settings but amps sim types (a Mesa for a Fender, etc.) between scenes. That would really open up a lot of possibilities or achieving a more organic palette of drive and boost to your Preset tones. :)
 
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smcrosby said:
Also, if I remember one of Ckark Kent's recent presets correctly, you can swap out not just amp-settings but amps sim types (a Mesa for a Fender, etc.) between scenes.
Click to expand...

Yes, if you have Mesa as Amp1 x-axis, and Fender as Amp1 y-axis, or the Fender is in the Amp2 block. While you remain in that preset however, the Mesa will always be located in Amp1X for all 8 scenes of that preset.
 
Admin M@ said:
I would say the best use of scenes depends on your personal need. If you have a complex highly integrated multi-device rig, scenes bring a kind of central authority, plus instant switching times, greater ease of use, and reduced programming maintenance.
Click to expand...

+1000

Last year's best Christmas present I got was Scenes, 2 weeks before the big Christmas Service I was asked to play in. Scenes with independent master volume control for each Scene - biggest invention ever for managing my rig.
 
Maybe I don't have much imagination but I only use 1,2,3 scenes. Clean, pushed rhythm, lead. I had 5 at one time but I quit because I just wasn't using 4&5 much.

I agree scenes is one of the best improvements that we've gotten with the axe. Vastly expanded the versatility.
 
Ahh scenes. I love them SOOOO much! You can really unlock a ton of power in one patch with scenes. As J-Beard wrote: you can do a whole night on one patch if you exploit scenes to their maximum potential. And I recall Admin M@ saying Vai does the entire first half of his show on one patch -- moving between settings using scenes instead of patch changes for fast changes of sounds and effect settings.

My general use of scenes is described in: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-fx-ii-preset-exchange/76356-iaresees-gig-patches-monster-post.html -- I use a 5-scene setup to take my patches from clean to lead and a final, fifth scene, for something "special" in each patch that is patch-dependent.

And I just posted about using scenes to do wholesale change ups of your effect settings in a patch here: http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...-scenes-x-y-states-do-mooooaaaarrrrrrrrr.html

Scenes are awesome.
 
I have had my Axe Fx since the end of June.

So far, I am doing everything (3+ hours of original music) on a single patch using 8 scenes. I have 2 other patches that are basically using the exact same "template", with the only difference being the clean amp (my primary sound) that is in use (this one uses the Buttery model, the other 2 use the Morgan AC20 and the SuperTweed).

I thinks scenes are excellent - I would actually like to have MORE scenes because there are way more than 8 combinations of the amp/effect blocks on and off AND X and Y states than 8 can cover.

The key thing to remember about scenes is the concept behind them: they are to allow for "seamless" changes (i.e., no signal drop-out like what can occur when changing presets), and they are really like a "programmable pedalboard".

Maybe they make more sense to me right off the bat because in my old rig, I was using a single amp for clean (Budda SuperDrive II 18w) in conjunction with a TC Electron GMajor2 in the loop, and a combination of overdrive pedals sent into the front via a Voodoo Labs GCX loop switcher.

This allowed me with a single button press of my Ground Control Pro to:

  • Change a preset on the Gmajor2
  • Engage one (or any combination of) my pedals in the 8 loops of the GCX

So I had basically a "scene-based" system before of my own creation.

The difference now is that I can also change amps (and as soon as my Xitone wedge arrives) cabs as well.

My "template" patch currently looks like this (both the phaser, filter and parallel pitch block are not actually in use at the moment - within scenes, anyway):

buttery.jpg

My scene layout is this (scene 2 is the primary one - don't ask ;)).

Note that ALL scenes have Wah (attached to external controller 1, autoengaged) and Pitch shift (serial, +1 octave attached to external controller 2, autoengaged). All scenes also have Compressor1-X, Delay1-X, Chorus1-X engaged except where noted as a difference:

  1. Clean/Delay: Amp1-X + Delay1-Y (long delay with prevalent mix) + Reverb
  2. Main Clean: Amp1-X + Reverb
  3. Dirty Rhythm: Amp1-Y
  4. Dirty Rhythm/Delay: Amp1-Y + Delay1-Y (long delay with prevalent mix)
  5. Mellow Lead: Amp2-Y
  6. Lead 1: Amp2-Y + Drive1-X
  7. Lead 2: Amp2-X
  8. Octavia Lead: Amp1-X + Drive2-X

With more scenes I could have quite a few more combinations of effects/amps. As mentioned, there are some blocks not even in use yet (right now I turn them on manually at home when I am "messing around").

Eventually I will create a second "copy" of this same exact patch and have some of the scenes using different combos of blocks as I expand my use. In particular, the parallel pitch block is to add harmony lines which I want to incorporate into some solos.

I am also planning to mod the FCB1010 I recently bought with the LG-FCB hardware mod (allows it to have much of the Gordius Little Giant capabilities). With the ability to send an unlimited number of midi message streams with a single button press, I may implement my own "scene control" without using Axe Fx scenes... this will allow me to have as many "scenes" as I care to program. :D

Kevin
 
rodzimguitar68 said:
Yes, if you have Mesa as Amp1 x-axis, and Fender as Amp1 y-axis, or the Fender is in the Amp2 block. While you remain in that preset however, the Mesa will always be located in Amp1X for all 8 scenes of that preset.
Click to expand...

The are called the X and Y "states" or "settings"... an "axis" is something completely different :)
 
Sure...I'll share my preset for those interested. Be a few days but I'll put it up and put the link on here.

Personally...I have no need for direct preset access. All of my changes mid-song are handled with the scenes themselves. For any songs that cannot be covered with my layout I just change the preset between songs. Step on REVEAL and go back to preset mode to select that way. I suppose if you required instant access adding the extra access switches would work too.
 
Admin M@ said:
Tell us about your playing in context and I'll be able to better answer your question.
Click to expand...

Radley is definitely a pro!

I have a really simple to use, but complex to setup situation.

Basically, I wanted to reduce everything down so that I was 1 button away from any sound I needed at any point in any song. So, I set the first 3 switches to scenes 1-3 (clean, crunch, gain, respectively). Switch 4 is a delay, switch 5 is a "solo" button which engages a boost and a delay. The second row on the MFC is setup for various stomp boxes, and the top row calls specific presets. I do not use banks.

My main patch can get me through 90% of my night because it's basically setup like a real amp/pedalboard. I'm still using 3 amp and cab models, various compressors and delays, etc... Think of it like this: your favorite clean, your favorite crunch, and your favorite high gain all in a single patch!

There is a limit however, for instance I have a synth patch that is separate due to CPU constraints and I have a vinyl/record player patch for a couple intros. You can also change what scene your patch defaults to when switching to it, so you can easily go from one patch to the other and still have the tone you need one button press away.
 
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