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The “What” and “Why” of Scene Controllers

unix-guy

Legend!
Post 9.

I use it in a preset that has multiple auto-wah types.
Yeah, in reply to my quote from another thread (in post 8)...

But I was really referring to actual use cases, not just the mention of having 4 channels of controllers.

So now you've mentioned one :D

That's the first mention I've seen on the forum of someone actually making use of the Controller channels.
 

is9582

Forum Addict
@Capt Nasty

Wow, I hadn't yet explored Scene Controllers. Glad you brought up your questions, as I'm pretty sure I'm in the same boat. I guess I'd better get after it so I can stay current. ;)

Lee
 

Capt Nasty

Inspired
@Capt Nasty

Wow, I hadn't yet explored Scene Controllers. Glad you brought up your questions, as I'm pretty sure I'm in the same boat. I guess I'd better get after it so I can stay current. ;)

Lee
Modifiers and controllers are really powerful. I think that Scenes + Channels + Modifiers + Controllers rounds out what I think of as the “Texture Management” stack in the Axe III. After I figure out exactly what is going on with Channels and Scene Controllers, I will start delving into dialing in Amps with videos from @2112.
 

is9582

Forum Addict
Yeah, Leon @2112 has lots of on point vids from which to gain a ton of useful knowledge!

We've certainly come a long way from the early days when I ordered the Ultra, then the II..., and now with the III! Life is sooo good!

Cheers,

Lee
 

Kamil Kisiel

Veteran
I can imagine doing some interesting things switching channels on the scene controllers to control delay times while keeping everything else the same. Will have to experiment... I wonder if the FC will allow assigning buttons to just switch channels on the controllers "block"
 
I'd never really understood scene controllers, but I think I get it now. For example in Scene 1 I have an amp with gain @6. In Scene 2 I have the same amp, gain @ 10, perhaps another minor EQ tweak.
I am using Channels currently to achieve this. The downside is that there's a slight glitch while the Axe switches Channels, moving from Scene 1<->Scene 2.
I could instead use a scene controller to set the gain/minor EQ beween the scenes - and I assume this would ensure that Scene1<->Scene2 would be a glitchless change, since Axe isn't changing Channels.
I'll need to try this out!
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
I'd never really understood scene controllers, but I think I get it now. For example in Scene 1 I have an amp with gain @6. In Scene 2 I have the same amp, gain @ 10, perhaps another minor EQ tweak.
I am using Channels currently to achieve this. The downside is that there's a slight glitch while the Axe switches Channels, moving from Scene 1<->Scene 2.
I could instead use a scene controller to set the gain/minor EQ beween the scenes - and I assume this would ensure that Scene1<->Scene2 would be a glitchless change, since Axe isn't changing Channels.
I'll need to try this out!
Correct.
 

Denny99

Inspired
Those 2 sets of images are not related.

The first 2 pics show the scene controller settings for each channel of the Controllers "block".

The last image shows selecting whether a given modifier affects ALL channels of the block or only a select channel.
Well, I did some more testing and yes: you're right. The last image does what you say, sorry for that. At this point I still don't get how then the scene controller settings are involved with the channels thing. Any idea?
 

Denny99

Inspired
Channels and modifiers
When a controller is assigned as a source to a parameter (in a modifier menu), you can make it apply to either all channels of that block, or to only a single channel. A parameter allows only one modifier, not multiple.

And that covers the last image I posted, as unix-guy correctly pointed out it actually works like that (not the way I thought it would). It still remains unclear to me why the scene controllers values can be assigned different values for each channel, or how to use those different set of values in a preset.
 

Capt Nasty

Inspired
@Denny99, as for how to use scene controllers + channels in a preset, if a modifier were set to a single channel; I think it would be something like this:
  • You assign a scene controller to a modifier within a block
  • You set the modifier to only operate on Channel A
  • You save a scene that has the block with the modifier on Channel A
  • When you select that scene, the scene controller will change the parameter. If you go to a different scene in which that block is on another channel, the scene controller will not change the parameter
If a modifier channel were set to “All”, then it would use the scene controller setting for the channel you are switching to. Remember that channels are part of scene data, so as you change scenes you can also change channels.

As I think about scene controllers, they really seem to me to be useful for very specific, small scale tweaks to settings. The use of ratios (%) to define the action of the scene controller, while very generic to many different types of parameters; makes it less likely that you could reuse a single scene controller for many parameters within a scene. Think about it. How many parameters would you want to move to “66%”or any other single ratio all in a single scene change?

An example of a use case that I could foresee using a Scene Controller with Channels would be to control gain on an amp block as I move through different scenes with few if any other alterations to block parameters that I want to make. I could see using the 4 scene controllers and Channels to manage say gain, and delay/reverb parameters

If there were larger scale changes to parameters in a channel, I would likely forego scene controllers and simply use Channels themselves. Or I could see a hybrid approach wherein certain parameters are always controlled by Scene Controller while any other parameter changes could be made with just Channels.

I suspect this all comes down to efficiency. Just as scene and channel changes are more efficient than preset changes, I suspect scene controller changes are more efficient than full channel changes. If a tweak to your tone is minor enough, scene controllers might provide the most transparent transition.

Scene controllers + Channels in my opinion are a useful tool in the toolbox. Like any tool, if used properly in the right situations, they can enhance what you can achieve. If used improperly I could see how they could create conditions within presets that could be very difficult to debug.
 
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jefferski

Fractal Fanatic
How many parameters would you want to move to “66%”or any other single ratio all in a single scene change
There's more to it than meets the eye... because you can set the ranges of each parameter differently. So let's say you have Drive, and set the range from 0-100. Then 66% would be 6.6 on the Drive (and let's you maybe started with the Drive at 3.3, or 33%). But let's say you also want to keep the volume at the same level... you could set the Level to go from a range of say -12 to -18, and 33% to 66% of that would lower the volume from -14 to -16.

I agree with you that this can become difficult to manage and to remember what the heck you're doing in a given preset ;-). So I generally try to avoid that level of complexity. But the creative possibilities are pretty awesome!
 

Denny99

Inspired
@Denny99, as for how to use scene controllers + channels in a preset, if a modifier were set to a single channel; I think it would be something like this:
  • You assign a scene controller to a modifier within a block
  • You set the modifier to only operate on Channel A
  • You save a scene that has the block with the modifier on Channel A
  • When you select that scene, the scene controller will change the parameter. If you go to a different scene in which that block is on another channel, the scene controller will not change the parameter
If a modifier channel were set to “All”, then it would use the scene controller setting for the channel you are switching to. Remember that channels are part of scene data, so as you change scenes you can also change channels.
Thanks @Capt Nasty for your exhaustive explanation, very clear so far. The use of channel in the modifier is pretty useful if you want channel to follow (or not) the scene controllers values.
Also I pretty much agree on your view on channels vs. scene controllers (which I didn't quote as it is out of scope at the moment).

My question, which seems to remain unanswered, is: why can I set different channels to scene controllers, when (of course) I can use just one channel in a block, per scene? (see post #6 where I posted the pics showing different channel for the same scene, same scene controller).
I understand I may have some difficulties explaining what I mean :) here is a short video that hopefully can help.

In the video I set Scene Controller 1 to the following values:
  • scene 1 -> 5%
  • scene 2 -> 34.8%
  • scene 3 -> 67.6%
  • scene 4 -> 100%
All other scenes (5 to 8) are 0%. I assigned this controller to a modifier for the drive knob in a Drive block. When I change scene, the knob change accordingly.

As you can see in the video, all scenes are associated with Channel A. Then I arbitrarily select Scene 2, and I press the "CHANNEL +" button, switching from Channel A to Channel B (which has all 0% values). Of course this means that when I select scene 2, the drive knob is being set to 0% (and not 34.8%, correctly).
Please notice that the Drive block does NOT change Channel. Channel is always A for all scenes, only the drive know value changes.

Again, what's the use for that? What's the point in setting a complete different set of values for Channel B, when I can just use one scene at a time, and one channel at a time in a given scene.

 

Bakerman

Axe-Master
What's the point in setting a complete different set of values for Channel B, when I can just use one scene at a time, and one channel at a time in a given scene.
The controllers block channel can be switched to alter scene controller values while staying on one scene. For example if you wanted 4 amp gain values on a basic tone (no effect changes), it's possible on one scene & one amp channel.

Another scene could keep the amp gain scene controller at one value for all channels, with another SC changing effect mixes.

A SC could even act as bypass modifier to get various combinations of 2 or more blocks within a scene.

It's kind of like having 32 scenes (8 scenes x 4 controller channels) with certain limitations.
 

Capt Nasty

Inspired
The controllers block channel can be switched to alter scene controller values while staying on one scene. For example if you wanted 4 amp gain values on a basic tone (no effect changes), it's possible on one scene & one amp channel.

Another scene could keep the amp gain scene controller at one value for all channels, with another SC changing effect mixes.

A SC could even act as bypass modifier to get various combinations of 2 or more blocks within a scene.

It's kind of like having 32 scenes (8 scenes x 4 controller channels) with certain limitations.
Could you elaborate on what you mean by “the controllers block channel”. Not being a smart ass, don’t follow what you mean. There is not a “controller block” that I am aware of. How would one go about changing the channel of the controller block channel?
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Could you elaborate on what you mean by “the controllers block channel”. Not being a smart ass, don’t follow what you mean. There is not a “controller block” that I am aware of. How would one go about changing the channel of the controller block channel?
It's not a block you add to the grid... But the controllers also have 4 channels.

That is what I referred to in my previous posts.
 

unix-guy

Legend!
Could you elaborate on what you mean by “the controllers block channel”. Not being a smart ass, don’t follow what you mean. There is not a “controller block” that I am aware of. How would one go about changing the channel of the controller block channel?
The first 2 pics show the scene controller settings for each channel of the Controllers "block".
So the thing that isn't really talked about here is the fact that the Controller "block" has 4 channels.
 
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