Tests today: tube power amp/speaker vs IRs

Toowoombaus

Toowoombaus

Member
I did some tests today.

I ran the Axe FX II thru a tube power amp (FX return TopHat Emplexador, EL34’s) and then to a 1x12 with a Celestion G12H 70th anniversary and all the amp models sound good, really good.

Those same models through IR’s only sound good on about 15%. I only have stock IR’s and the free Cab Packs Mad Oak and Wellspring. I was using KRK V8 studio monitors.

Why is that? I’m spending a lot of time trying IR’s and tweaking, but through a cabinet they sound great.

I’m guessing that I need to get some decent IR’s...

Any other reasons?
 
My experience is that a great many of the stock IRs sound unnatural to me. I’d probably be able to ‘dial them in’ eventually but I stick to the dozen or so that sound like I expect a guitar to sound like. Find those for you and all is good! There is just too much choice - in the good old days you have one cab and you a) spend time making it sound right and b) simply got used to it without constantly a-b’ing and comparing. My personal favourite IRs are from the Own Hammer add-on packs - can’t remember the name but V30s tend to sound ‘right’ to me and this has MESA, Marshall etc cabs with those which 90% of the time is what my ears expect. I also use Greenbacks for plexis and CL80s for Mesas which all sound right. Some boutique amps only sound ‘right’ with different speakers though.

My advice is to persevere with finding your top IRs rather than falling back to the safety of the ol’ guitar cab. Also more expensive monitors will sound more different than outright better in my opinion. I have some KRKs and I manage to get sounds that I prefer to my Handwired Cornford amps/cabs - just like guitar speakers you need to tweak until you get the tone that makes you smile!!

Have fun.
 
One more tip depending on the volume you listen at is to play with the hicut on the cabs. In general I find there is a little too much top end for cabs to sound natural at medium volumes - so I tend to bring down the high frequencies a bit. Also the ‘proximity’ setting In the cab block adds some low/mid tonality that for some IRs makes them sound right.
 
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RichM said:
My experience is that a great many of the stock IRs sound unnatural to me. I’d probably be able to ‘dial them in’ eventually but I stick to the dozen or so that sound like I expect a guitar to sound like. Find those for you and all is good! There is just too much choice - in the good old days you have one cab and you a) spend time making it sound right and b) simply got used to it without constantly a-b’ing and comparing. My personal favourite IRs are from the Own Hammer add-on packs - can’t remember the name but V30s tend to sound ‘right’ to me and this has MESA, Marshall etc cabs with those which 90% of the time is what my ears expect. I also use Greenbacks for plexis and CL80s for Mesas which all sound right. Some boutique amps only sound ‘right’ with different speakers though.

My advice is to persevere with finding your top IRs rather than falling back to the safety of the ol’ guitar cab. Also more expensive monitors will sound more different than outright better in my opinion. I have some KRKs and I manage to get sounds that I prefer to my Handwired Cornford amps/cabs - just like guitar speakers you need to tweak until you get the tone that makes you smile!!

Have fun.
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Thank you! I’ll stick with it.
I’ve only had this thing for like two weeks so it’s encouraging to hear that this is just part of the process.
I was just curious to hear what it sounded like through a guitar cabinet.
 
If it makes you feel better, I use none of the presets I created in the first month any more. You just find better ways of getting the exact tones you are seeking ...
 
RichM said:
If it makes you feel better, I use none of the presets I created in the first month any more. You just find better ways of getting the exact tones you are seeking ...
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That makes sense. It’s just a completely different animal with so many different parameters to dial in for each model. Amp and cab.
That’s one of the things that I really enjoyed about plugging into a cabinet because it was so simple they all sounded good.
There is a certain inherent quality to the modeled cabinets and sometimes they sound a little bit unnatural maybe for a few different reasons: I haven’t bought the right ones, maybe the technology isn’t quite there yet, and because I haven’t learned how to dial yet them in like you said.
Thanks for the advice. I’ll get it down.
 
Think of the studio monitor sound in a relative way. That is, compare it to "Guitar only" tracks of pro studio recordings.
A studio monitor will never sound as huge and powerful as a real cab. All it can mimic is a cab recorded through a mic.
 
When I did studio/live work (i.e. before I started using Fractal), I was the guy who spent 80% of his time shifting the mics on his cab until the perfect sweetspot was found. I'm the same with IRs on my Axe-FX, pretty much OCD about which ones give me that sound that I want. Some of the time I actually end up using an IR of a cab that is not at all related to the amp. I'm currently using a blend of 4x12s with the AC15 and a Fender amp (can't remember which one).
You really have to play around with different IRs and maybe sometimes you need to look at IRs that you might not normally use.
 
I would agree that for me, not having an IR is one less thing I have to mess with and tweak.
I do use IR's but for recording only through monitors - which I don't do a whole lot of.
I love the tone I get from just a matrix power amp and my port city 2x12. So for me, I very rarely go into IR land.
 
In Ares, I could very well be imagining this, but it seems like more cabs are 'working for me' than before.

It seems like cabs that were too boomy or honky are now working for me.

I haven't A/B'd, this is just an observation from memory.

I'm saving for a CLR. I have a powercab now, and I'm in the same boat, the guitar cab sounds a bit better and punchier. I will do an A/B with the CLR when I get it.
 
mikeyg said:
Sometimes the IR you think would just not work, works great...
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Yeah, @RichM was telling me that so I started trying atypical IR's and tweaking those and I started getting some workable tones.

Of course in the back of my mind I'm thinking "I know my real cabinets sound great with the Axe why am I spending time tweaking software"?! o_O

But you're right.
 
When you're using the real amp and cab did you bypass the Cab block (or disable Cab modeling)?

Did you also disable Power Amp modeling?

Also, were you comparing IRs to your cab which was mic'd up and in another room where you can only hear it through your monitors?

If not, this is a completely apples to oranges comparison...
 
unix-guy said:
When you're using the real amp and cab did you bypass the Cab block (or disable Cab modeling)?

Did you also disable Power Amp modeling?

Also, were you comparing IRs to your cab which was mic'd up and in another room where you can only hear it through your monitors?

If not, this is a completely apples to oranges comparison...
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Yes of course I disabled Cab and Power amp modeling. First thing. ;)

I understand it wasn't a true A/B test.
I don't even know if that's possible with all the other variables: same kind of mic, mic position, mic pre etc.

I know what a mic'd amp sounds like I'm an engineer. It's obvious some IR's sound great they jump out of the speakers maybe 10%.

It was just out of curiosity I tried running it through tube power and a real cab, so I probably should have named the post "goofing around running Axe thru tube power amp and Celestion cabinet".

I inadvertently hit the invisible wall of "proper IR=good tone" which I didn't know existed. I've learned a lot in a week. ;)

What shocked me was how good every model sounded through a real cab after a couple days of less than satisfactory results with the IR's.

I've done some research and I'm going to start with ML Sound Labs which I think you recommended to me on the first day, and I've learned a few things about tweaking things to work. I just didn't see it coming is all: the atypical skillset required to work with IR's.

It's all part of the journey... :)
 
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