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Tesla

electronpirate

Moderator
Moderator
Look, I'm all Apple and enjoy the experience, but their hardware lags state-of-the-art by a mile and then some. Is what it is.

They might have something with the M1. But for the entirety of their Intel existence their machine specs have always been underwhelming. On the CPU front and the GPU front.

Not sure I agree with this. In the 'overall' sense, the specs do not match what others are doing. But they control the interaction between HW and SW, so they optimized development that they can perform better than those who quote faster CPU/GPU speeds.

The problem with most people seems to be that if you go Apple, you have to STAY in that world. I, for one, do not mind this as if I have to integrate my kids, my Ex Wife, and my world, it's a no brainer. (And the equipment seems to last FAR longer than comparable units.)

Back to the OP. I have a few friends who have Tesla. Yes, they realize there are problems, but Tesla has been more than responsive for fixing things, making updates, etc. Both understand we are in very new territory. I have not heard ONE of my friends say 'I regret buying Tesla'. Kool aide consumed.

R
 

rushfan

Experienced
Electric motors can be crazy powerful. Freight locomotives are often driven by electric motors. Their big diesel engines drive either AC alternators or DC generators that in turn power electric motors to actually turn the wheels. They can give you the same high torque at any speed without the need for a complex transmission.

It will be interesting to see if Liquid Piston's rotary engines, which are non-wankel, but can be 1/10 the size of regular motors, would someday be in diesel-electric locomotives. I have read that they are going to produce generators for the US Armed forces that currently weigh a couple thousand pounds down to a few hundred pounds for the same output power. They can be very small, or up to 1000 horsepower at the moment. They intend to license their designs to engine manufacturers. They might wind up in hybrid cars someday as well, being the generator for the electric motors, extending their drive able range. I found it interesting, anyway.

https://www.liquidpiston.com/how-it-works
 
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plexi59

Guest
Diesel-electric locomotives should really just be electric locomotives imo, fed from the overhead high voltage wire like in Europe. I bet it wouldn’t even be difficult to retrofit them such that they could just turn off the diesel engine.
 

Muad'zin

Fractal Fanatic
It's when you look the the problems:units-produced scale that Tesla really doesn't make the grade. All manufacturers have problems, yes. But BMW is near the top for that ratio. Tesla, not so much. They do better once a model has been in production for many years, but the stuff that's not out very long has all kinds of issues. They don't know how to run assembly lines very well

Honestly, given their quality it's super amusing Tesla manufactures in Fremont, CA. Which is notorious for some of the worst cars ever produced in all time. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fremont_Assembly

There's a great podcast on Fremont and how Toyota helped them in a joint venture: https://www.thisamericanlife.org/561/nummi-2015

Wasn't Musk going to move production to Texas, being fed up with California's Covid regulations?

Just think where we would be today if greed did not get in the way.
View attachment 76769

If greed didn't motivate us, we'd be under communism most probably, and considering the environmental disasters that communism has wrought wherever it ruled don't be so quick to rule out greed. Just check out what happened to the Aral Sea.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aral_Sea

I'm not convinced yet that the electric car is the answer to our prayers, as it shifts power production from cars to an already overstretched electrical grid. And it will shifting our current electrical production from fossile to sustainable even harder. Plus batteries ain't that environmentally friendly to produce either.

Everybody is currently busy trying to clean up their own act to virtue signal how good they are, but in practice that means cleaning your own curb and dumping all the trash and unwanted stuff with your neighbors. If as a species we want to clean up our act we need to examine the whole chain, from start to end user, not our small individual section of it. And not to trust in governments, because good old greed might solve more things then we wish to acknowledge it. Here in the Netherlands the government has sunk immense amounts of subsidies earmarked for energy transitioning into biomass, which on paper is CO2 neutral, but in practice causes even greater CO2 emissions, as it involves burning up wood. American forests to be precise. Your forests are being chopped up, chipped and shipped to the Netherlands so on paper we can look sustainable. I'll take my chances with greed. We don't need more Aral Seas.

And now I'll get off my soapbox again and back to playing and building guitars.
 
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plexi59

Guest
That’s the beauty of it: no virtue signaling or “global warming” needed to sell Tesla cars. They stand on their own merit because they’re good products. And most of electricity in my state is hydro, but even if it was straight up coal l’d still buy the car.
 

ESW

Inspired
I'm really thankful for Tesla normalizing electric cars, but I expect that similarly priced electric cars from traditional automakers will surpass what Tesla offers in the next few years, at least in terms of reliability if not performance.
 

favance

Power User
The real problem with ANY kind of car, truck, (electric or not) is they require roadways. Roadways need asphalt (requires oil) and/or cement and deteriorate. I say we invest in hot air balloons and/or airships! :D
 

seeu22

Inspired
I do like the concept of electric cars for their performance potential, the low maintenance that should be associated with them, and once the R & D phase of their development is behind us the cost should be far more reasonable than their gas fired counterparts.

Where EV's concern me is the real environmental concerns surrounding the production and disposal of the batteries. The additional stress on electrical grids as more and more electric cars, stoves, furnaces, etc. come online. Hydro generation is great, but it is nearly impossible to site new hydro facilities so we are stuck massaging efficiencies out of existing facilities.

How many of us have run out of gas before? It happens. What do you do with an EV? You can't call a buddy to bring a jerry can to get you to the next petro station. EV's are great on defined routes for commuting, etc. but all those little wrong turns you take on the weekend that make life fun might be a little more difficult. It would be nice if there was some sort of universal drop in battery pack that was widely available that would give you an extra 25 miles of limp mode range to get you to the nearest charge station.

I'm also concerned about their performance in winter both cold and snow conditions. What happens when your driving from Aspen back to Denver and there is a highway closure due to an avalanche? It happens all the time. Sometimes takes 3 or 4 hours to clear.

Again I do like EV's and I am grateful for the early adopters that are facilitating further development on them. They are getting close to being ready for the mainstream, but they still aren't for everyone. In my environment with my work and lifestyle I still have to rely on gas guzzlers unfortunately. It's not me flipping the bird at development or the environmental movement. It is just the reality of my situation as well as that of many others.
 
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OldSnail

Inspired
Tesla are fast cars but I've never seen one "spirited" driven...
I like the freedom of the 5 minutes-at-the-gas-station. I could not bear the anxiety of the range, the duration of the charge.
I'm not ready to go electric....for my cars ;-)
 

MisterE

Fractal Fanatic
It's greed - that of the oil barons and sjeiks to be precise - thta kept us from having fuel efficient vehicles.
Back in the 50's, there was an Opel Commodore that could drive a bit more than 100 km on 1 liter of petrol.
Albeit not fast a, not uphill and not against the wind, but they did it.
Shell bought it and it was never heard of again.
An employee of GM found a way to save 14% fuel. When he tried to patent it, he found out it already existed and had been bought by an oil sjeik.
The whole system of patents is counter productive.
If an inventor makes something that can benefit the world, no one should be able to buy it and lock it away, just because it goes against their interests.
The only thing they should be allowed to do is to pay a license fee to use his invention.
I'm convinced there are numerous forgotten inventions that could provide solutions for cleaner transportation.
 
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plexi59

Guest
I expect that similarly priced electric cars from traditional automakers will surpass what Tesla offers in the next few years
Not going to happen, for the same reasons why no one “surpassed” the iPhone. Not even Apple can surpass them now no matter how much they spend. Watch them try, only to release a half-assed co-branded attempt by 2024.
 
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plexi59

Guest
FWIW also, I’ve never run out of gas in a gasoline or diesel car either. And it’s great that I can start every morning with a “full tank” so to speak.
 

iaresee

Administrator
Moderator
Electric cars are the future. There have been some recent advances in solid-state batteries and if they can mass produce them then it's all but the end of ICE autos.
Sitting here getting an oil change and paying the Big Mechanic Lobby tax in the form of a yearly inspection. Electric will be great. Bring it on. (Just not Tesla)
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
Within five years every manufacturer will have at least a couple all-electric models and the infrastructure will be much better. Car makers are notoriously slow to change but Tesla has shown that people will buy electric cars, and lots of them.

Teslas stock will soon plummet to typical auto maker P/Es and Elon will take to Twitter to try to pump the stock value.
 

ESW

Inspired
Electric cars are the future. There have been some recent advances in solid-state batteries and if they can mass produce them then it's all but the end of ICE autos.

Yeah, the solid state batteries are going to change everything. Ten minutes to charge, 300 mile range, much lower risk of fire. Toyota expects to have them in production in the next few years.
 

Mohi

Inspired
Electric cars should have been a driver for changing the mobility model, still the target seems to be to produce 2 ton vehicles to take mostly one person from one place to another (not that far). Indirect emissions of electric cars is estimated around 58 grams per km, depending on the car and electricity generation sources, no real revolution there.
 
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plexi59

Guest
Yeah, the solid state batteries are going to change everything. Ten minutes to charge, 300 mile range, much lower risk of fire. Toyota expects to have them in production in the next few years.
As opposed to the current 15 minutes (on supercharger, for about 190 miles) and 330 miles? 😂
 
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plexi59

Guest
Electric cars should have been a driver for changing the mobility model, still the target seems to be to produce 2 ton vehicles to take mostly one person from one place to another (not that far). Indirect emissions of electric cars is estimated around 58 grams per km, depending on the car and electricity generation sources, no real revolution there.
That’s not bad for a nearly 400hp car that accelerates faster than most Porsche models. One third the number of my BMW. And in my state the energy mix is dominated by hydro, so that’s a plus too. Though that’s not why I bought the car. I’ll start taking global warming more seriously when Al Gore unloads his mansions and starts flying commercial, and not a moment before. Although I do aim to lower my environmental impact when it does not affect (or in this case improves) my quality of life.
 
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plexi59

Guest
Wasn't Musk going to move production to Texas, being fed up with California's Covid regulations?
I think the main reason is that CA is thinking of introducing a wealth tax, and make it stick for 10 years even after people move out. Expect more high net worth folks to take their business elsewhere. 1% of $150B is $1.5B a year, and I’m sure Musk can come up with better ways to spend that money than Gavin Newsom even when stoned out of his mind during a Joe Rogan interview.
 
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