Teach me Sensei: Drive Pedals?

fret

fret

Experienced
I your humble student of dirt do beseech thee for the nuggets of wisdom you have:



I think both example are Quantum v2, so things should just be the same. However I wouldn't expect slightly different firmware versions to vary wildly either.

Also I'm using a different cab because he has a custom IR loaded. Which I can't get. But seeing as the base sound is in the same ball park would that really matter?
 
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Modifying your amp to suite your pickups just impacts the amp. Your pickups are still different than his, so of course the same settings on a drive pedal are going to sound different with your guitar and pickups. You changed your amp tone from his because your pickups are different. Why wouldn't you do the same for your drive pedal? :)
 
ConnorGilks said:
Why wouldn't you do the same for your drive pedal? :)
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Changing the drive pedal settings doesn't get me those tones. I tried changing the settings but I still feel something is really off about their sound.

I need to understand why from a more scientific point of view, given a very similar starting point, the drive pedals suck so much for me and sound great for everyone else. I don't think the guitar is the problem here, otherwise the base tone would suck too. It doesn't.

This is a small example of many attempts to use drive pedals. All pretty much didn't work for me so I went to using my amp A/B settings to switch between crunch and lead.
 
I think the problem is that you are using the neck pickup and he is using the bridge pickup. Your neck pickup contains much more low end. This leads to more harmonics there as well, and that's why you're hearing more drive even though you use the same settings.

The easiest solution is to switch to the bridge pickup :). If you're keen on using your neck pickup though, increase the low cut parameter in the drive block until the low end cleans up. That should get you closer to the sound of the other video. Also, I'm hearing more 'jangle' in his sound. Increase treble/presence somewhere in your chain to get a more jangly sound.
 
Arjan said:
If you're keen on using your neck pickup though, increase the low cut parameter in the drive block until the low end cleans up.
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Or considering I might need more treble too, maybe a PEQ block before the drive? And then zero out all the changes on the amp... hmmm that sounds plausible. I'll give it a try.

I like the courser gain I get through the neck pickup. Hence trying to make it work on the neck. I do use the bridge with other amps and in other situations.
 
fret said:
Or considering I might need more treble too, maybe a PEQ block before the drive? And then zero out all the changes on the amp... hmmm that sounds plausible. I'll give it a try.

I like the courser gain I get through the neck pickup. Hence trying to make it work on the neck. I do use the bridge with other amps and in other situations.
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I'd avoid using extra blocks - it's not necessary. Keep things simple. Just add a bit of treble/presence to the amp sound, and cut some low end in the drive block. That should get you there.
 
I would definetly try with a bridge pickup, and since he is using custom IR (which is very important chain in this sound) try replacing cab with a tone match block and try to do some tone matching.
 
I understand where you're coming from, I just don't quite understand how you have a different guitar, with different pickups, and choose to use a different pickup setting, and wonder why it doesn't sound the same when you use the same settings. Of course it won't, why would it?
 
ConnorGilks said:
I understand where you're coming from, I just don't quite understand how you have a different guitar, with different pickups, and choose to use a different pickup setting, and wonder why it doesn't sound the same when you use the same settings. Of course it won't, why would it?
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I'm not trying to copy his tone exactly. Just the effect of adding the drive pedal. Getting the amp to sound similar is just to remove that as a variable (as much as I can). The guitar and pickup being different is beside the point (to me at least). I'm really surprised at how different it sounds. Ultimately I think I need to get the balance of bass/mid/treble right before the drive block so get the same results.

I have in fact tried the bridge pickup and all the same tests... it wasn't significantly different. At least not to the level of sounding like the Youtube guy's tone.
 
Tweaking the amp only removes PART of the variable. Your pickups' natural characteristics don't cancel out just because you tweak the amp. They're hitting the drive pedal before that, so of course you're going to need to tweak the drive pedal.

You tweaked the amp to match that guys tone as much as possible, because you knew your pickups were different than his, and in order to match that tone you needed to use different settings than him. That same logic also applies to the drive pedal. Why would you NOT tweak the drive pedal settings too? Why would you not dial THAT in by ear? Why would your amp settings dictate how your drive pedal and pickups interact? Why would your guitar and pickups change the way your amp sounds on the same settings, but not your drive pedal?

You're applying the right line of thinking but to the wrong extent, to only half the equation. We've already established your guitar sounds different to his, that's why you changed your amp settings. Changing your drive pedal's settings... why would that NOT need to happen too?
 
G'day Fret,

Along with the others, I agree that the pickup choice is making a difference. To me, it sounds like there's way more bottom end in what you are putting into the preset and that in turn is making the drive compress. Have you tried it with the bridge yet?

Thanks
Pauly

fret said:
I your humble student of dirt do beseech thee for the nuggets of wisdom you have:



I think both example are Quantum v2, so things should just be the same. However I wouldn't expect slightly different firmware versions to vary wildly either.

Also I'm using a different cab because he has a custom IR loaded. Which I can't get. But seeing as the base sound is in the same ball park would that really matter?
Click to expand...
 
pauly said:
Have you tried it with the bridge yet?
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Yes, and getting somewhat similar results. My approach is changing, I'm uping the low cut to get rid of bottom end flub and pushing the volume around until it sits in the right place compared to the bypass. This gets 70% of the way there, and then I tweaked some of the frequencies going into the drives with some PEQ. I know people didn't like that solution but I wanted to play with it anyway. Particularly to make sure I'm getting the right amount of treble hitting the drives.

However the Rat and Ruckus have to be turned down to 0.5 Drive to sound half reasonable. I'm not convinced that that doesn't mess with their tone.
 
Just judging the sound, I'd try a different fuzz; like the micro boost, or better yet the FET boost, and play with the drive amount, tone and mix to suit your tastes.

My rationale is that he isn't boosting a lot (and you are in the video). Give it a whirl, and don't over look the mix button if you are getting too much of the effect when you only want "some".

I like the Eso ABC, but it can be a bit too much gain for my tastes just straight up out of the base block settings.
 
I think the problem is that the guy on the reference video has lower output pickups so you're oversaturating the drive block and that's why you're also getting a lower volume when you turn it on.
In my opinion what you have to do to get the same volume/gain from the drive pedals is lower the gain and turn up the level in the drive block until you reach about the same level of the sound without the drive
 
I figured I should chime in since that was my vid, lol. There are a few things at play here...biggest being guitar/pups/pup selection. Also you have to consider your hitting a non-mv amp with much different freq's than I am in the video. When you are running an amp like that wide open, how you hit a power-amp that is really working hard is huge. Any hyped freq's will be exaggerated due to power amp breakup and how the power amp translates what it's getting.
As for the pedal levels/distortion...again, it comes back to pickups and pickup selection. You're hitting them much differently with your PRS as I was with that Duesenberg. Now granted, I don't get a drastic shift between that and say my LP...but all guitars are different. Don't be afraid to turn the knobs until you get what you want.
Lastly, believe it or not IR plays a big part as well...although your base tone doesn't seem that far off but it's a kind of hard to tell due to the different pickup selection, etc.
 
jlynnb1 said:
You're hitting them much differently with your PRS as I was with that Duesenberg.
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Thanks for the input. The aha moment was getting the right amount of volume and frequencies going into the drive pedal. I'm so used to balancing things at the amp. Being an amp gain guy from way back in my tube days.

I'm actually working on getting some more pickup options. The PRS is only OK for this sort of stuff. I'm building a mahogany/maple-top strat with P90s. Which should be interesting to say the least.
 
fret said:
Thanks for the input. The aha moment was getting the right amount of volume and frequencies going into the drive pedal. I'm so used to balancing things at the amp. Being an amp gain guy from way back in my tube days.

I'm actually working on getting some more pickup options. The PRS is only OK for this sort of stuff. I'm building a mahogany/maple-top strat with P90s. Which should be interesting to say the least.
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I've been a PRS fan for years. I really like the versatility of the PRS volume and tone controls -- they are some of the best in the business.

Here's my recommendation for you, from someone who played nearly that exact same guitar that you're playing there for 15 years. Turn the guitar's volume down to somewhere between 5-8 (I usually start at 7). And knock the tone down from 10 to around 7 or so. Put the bridge pickup on, and see if that helps with the woofy-ness and too-overdriven problems you were having.

Turning down the volume on a PRS is a starting point for me on those guitars. I set my amp's rhythm tones where I want them with the guitar volume around 6-7. From there, if I roll up to 10 on the volume, I'd get a good boost of volume and gain, as I'm driving the front of the amp harder. Below that level7 volume, it cleans up very nice.

This is a bit more counter-intuitive than other guitars. On my Les Paul, for example, my starting point is almost always with the guitar on 10. It doesn't have nearly the range of tone as I roll down my volume on the Lester, so there's no point starting at 7...it's indistinguishable from 10, mostly.

Pulling down that volume will likely get you closer. Just remember to roll down the tone a bit too, to compensate for the slightly brighter tone that you'll get.
 
As others have said, your neck pickup is driving way too hard, no fault of your own. Bridge is a lot nicer, better mids and less bottom end, Neck add s a ton of flubbiness which s you are hearing. But there might be other factors at play here, his I/O settings and global EQ settings may be different to yours. As a rule my Input on the I/O page is at ZERO. Anything above that just turns to flub.

To be honest i have struggled a bit with drive pedals, i mostly just use the drive in the amp blocks on the X with higher / gainier settings on the Y.
 
Rexxyboy said:
To be honest i have struggled a bit with drive pedals, i mostly just use the drive in the amp blocks on the X with higher / gainier settings on the Y.
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This is what' I've been doing lately as well. Much nicer harmonics with the amp this way.
 
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