Tamming 4khz to 20khz harshness What are you doing High Gain amps

npdcoremetal

Inspired
I recorded a peavy 5150 through v30s with an sm57 ran a ibanez ts9 modded to ts808 specs and a noise suppressor 7 string esp with Emg 81-7 and Emg 707 I did this to try and match the tone with axe two things I notice first and forthmost It sounds almost exact with the exception of Hi end screatching fizz or whatever you want to call it. I have tried using specs from freq range of speakers like celestion v 30 are 85-5.5khz so i set the cab block with a mesa cab with 57 with motor drive at 5 the hi freq at 5.5khz and lows at 85. I did same in amp block peavey is 50hz-20,000hz so i did that on the power amp side the presence freq is 2.2k so and the power amp eq circut is active so i set the depth and presence to active I find i Have to completly pull out 8khz and 63hz my settings are as follows. GAIN 4.5 Bass 6 Mids 4.5 Treble 5.5 Presence 5.5 Master 3.75. Speaker highs at 5.5khz. lows 90 hz eq No 8khz -12 same with 63hz -12 to tame some highs and bass. TS808 Drive 0 Volume 10 Tone 10 etc etc. I still can hear freq in 20khz range if i pull too much it sounds poopie I would love some help to see what others are doing. Just for shits and giggles the actual peavey settongs are as such GAIN 3 Bass 10 mids 4.5 TREBLE 6.5 MASTER 3.5 DEPTH 10 PRESENCE 6.5 MODED TUBE SCREAMER VOLUME 10 TONE 10 GAIN 0. IN THIS SETTING RECORDING THROUGH A AVATAR CAB WITH V30 MICD ON CENTR CONE RIGHT ON THE GRILL THERE ALSO IS GH12 30S NOT MICD. I GET NO WILD BASS THIS WAY NO AND I MEAN NO FIZZY HARSHNESS AT ALL WHEN TRYING TO MATCH IT SOUNDS DEAD ON TOGETHER BUT ALONE NO GOOD AND LIVE ALL I CAN FREAKIN HEAR IS THOUSE FIZZ FREWUENCIES ITS DRIVING ME NUTS WHAT AM I DOING WRONG I HAVE TRIED A SLEW OF PATCHES OF HERE AND THEY ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMIN WAY WAY TOO MANY SHARP HIGHS. DO NOT TAKE WHAT I SAY WRONG I LIKE A HEALTYH AMOUNT OF HIGS AND PRESENCE JUST NOT EAR PIERCING. ANY HELP MUCH APPRECIATED MY APOLOGIES FOR SLOPPY POST
 
Hmmm... There's something you can try when you cut highs. Cut whatever the offending frequencies are, then turn down the volume completely for 15 seconds. Listen to something not guitar related. Then turn it back up. If that doesn't work, I don't really know what else to tell you really other than make a darker patch and adjust the presence. I don't own an Axe 2 so I dunno if the air parameter is back but if it is, fiddle with that too.
 
Set the High Cut in the Cab block, default is 20,000hz. Somewhere between 6,000hz and 8,000hz usually works well.

There's also a High Cut on the Tone tab of the Amp block, and Power Amp High Cut on the Power Tab of the Amp block, Speaker tab on the Amp block has XFormer Hi Freq. Play with them all, but the Cab block is a good place to start.

Another thing to try is Triode 1 Plate Freq and Triode 2 Plate Freq. These won't work as well as the High Cut for curing the problem described above, but in addition they can shape and smooth out the high end distortion.
 
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Set the High Cut in the Cab block, default is 20,000hz. Somewhere between 6,000hz and 8,000hz usually works well.

There's also a High Cut on the Tone tab of the Amp block, and Power Amp High Cut on the Power Tab of the Amp block, Speaker tab on the Amp block has XFormer Hi Freq. Play with them all, but the Cab block is a good place to start.

Another thing to try is Triode 1 Plate Freq and Triode 2 Plate Freq. These won't work as well as the High Cut for curing the problem described above, but in addition they can shape and smooth out the high end distortion.


Done it all mang it either takes too much and ruins the sound or not enough i am just wondering if i am hearing something in the axe thats not there or that the original has also but i do not hear it on the original
 
I recorded a peavy 5150 through v30s with an sm57 ran a ibanez ts9 modded to ts808 specs and a noise suppressor 7 string esp with Emg 81-7 and Emg 707 I did this to try and match the tone with axe two things I notice first and forthmost It sounds almost exact with the exception of Hi end screatching fizz or whatever you want to call it. I have tried using specs from freq range of speakers like celestion v 30 are 85-5.5khz so i set the cab block with a mesa cab with 57 with motor drive at 5 the hi freq at 5.5khz and lows at 85. I did same in amp block peavey is 50hz-20,000hz so i did that on the power amp side the presence freq is 2.2k so and the power amp eq circut is active so i set the depth and presence to active I find i Have to completly pull out 8khz and 63hz my settings are as follows. GAIN 4.5 Bass 6 Mids 4.5 Treble 5.5 Presence 5.5 Master 3.75. Speaker highs at 5.5khz. lows 90 hz eq No 8khz -12 same with 63hz -12 to tame some highs and bass. TS808 Drive 0 Volume 10 Tone 10 etc etc. I still can hear freq in 20khz range if i pull too much it sounds poopie I would love some help to see what others are doing. Just for shits and giggles the actual peavey settongs are as such GAIN 3 Bass 10 mids 4.5 TREBLE 6.5 MASTER 3.5 DEPTH 10 PRESENCE 6.5 MODED TUBE SCREAMER VOLUME 10 TONE 10 GAIN 0. IN THIS SETTING RECORDING THROUGH A AVATAR CAB WITH V30 MICD ON CENTR CONE RIGHT ON THE GRILL THERE ALSO IS GH12 30S NOT MICD. I GET NO WILD BASS THIS WAY NO AND I MEAN NO FIZZY HARSHNESS AT ALL WHEN TRYING TO MATCH IT SOUNDS DEAD ON TOGETHER BUT ALONE NO GOOD AND LIVE ALL I CAN FREAKIN HEAR IS THOUSE FIZZ FREWUENCIES ITS DRIVING ME NUTS WHAT AM I DOING WRONG I HAVE TRIED A SLEW OF PATCHES OF HERE AND THEY ALL HAVE ONE THING IN COMIN WAY WAY TOO MANY SHARP HIGHS. DO NOT TAKE WHAT I SAY WRONG I LIKE A HEALTYH AMOUNT OF HIGS AND PRESENCE JUST NOT EAR PIERCING. ANY HELP MUCH APPRECIATED MY APOLOGIES FOR SLOPPY POST

Holy crap! Wrong forum.
Babel's corner
:D

Cab sims off? power amp sims off?
 
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no everything is as it should be I been using axe for years man i just recently went from poweramp n cab to foh and during recording the highs get tamed in the mix but live thats all I could hear
 
Must have that Nikki paragraph problem thing... Or maybe funeral is correct its some sorta EYE talian talk. :)
 
Must have that Nikki paragraph problem thing... Or maybe funeral is correct its some sorta EYE talian talk. :)
Still have not figured out what causes it. I can preview and have it display fine, hit post and .. all paragraph breaks are gone. Only happens with my MacBook Pro + Chrome. W7x64 + Chrome is a-o-kay.

@OP: I would suggest recording the output. Post to Soundcloud, imbed in a reply here.
 
Maybe I´m the only one confused here but I don´t really understand the problem ?

1. Is the bad sound with the live rig with power-amp and real guitar cab´s ?

2. Is the bad sound while recording with cab sims ?

3. Is the bad sound live with some sort of monitor and cab-sims ?


4. Is there ever a good sound in some combination (using the AXE-II) ?
 
Did you try lowering the Hi Resonance Knob to about 3.5 (its in the speaker tab of the amp block)? That always helps me alot with harsh frequencies. On the other hand you could try the FAS 6160, it has way less high end harshness.
 
From the descripition is sounds like going from power amp -> guitar cab to direct to the desk revealed some high freq hash in the presets.

This hash would have been masked by the limited high freq range of the guitar cab. But it is revealed with other speakers. Especially speakers with cheap horns.

I would recommend starting from scratch and build your presets over on the direct system. Once a preset is dialed in and tweaked for power amp -> guitar cab, I find it very difficult to undo it back for FRFR. Just start over.

Richard
 
From the descripition is sounds like going from power amp -> guitar cab to direct to the desk revealed some high freq hash in the presets.

This hash would have been masked by the limited high freq range of the guitar cab. But it is revealed with other speakers. Especially speakers with cheap horns.

I would recommend starting from scratch and build your presets over on the direct system. Once a preset is dialed in and tweaked for power amp -> guitar cab, I find it very difficult to undo it back for FRFR. Just start over.

Richard

+1 my thoughts exactly. If you can somehow play through a big pa for a little while to do some tweaking you should be able to get some better results.
 
I have trouble with the high-end on DI too. I actually turn the low pass filter back to default 20k for cabinets, because when filtering it doesn't sound natural and cut. I use anywhere from 7-12k lowpass for DI, but it's still often too harsh with the tone I'm trying to get. I've yet to get a tone I'm satisfied with going direct, whether with a FRFR monitor or for recording.
 
For me, the most natural sounding cuts are in the Amp -> Tone -> Low Cut and Amp -> Tone -> High Cut.

The tricky part is, when you start from scratch, and you set those up front, you can dial in a tone real nice.

But, if you take a tone that has already been tweaked, adjusting those parameters isn't nearly as effective. This is because your IR choice and a myriad of other decisions that affect frequency response have already been made.

That's why I recommend starting from scratch. Sounds counter intuitive but it really is faster.

Richard
 
I recorded a peavy 5150 through v30s with an sm57 ran a ibanez ts9 modded to ts808 specs and a noise suppressor 7 string esp with Emg 81-7 and Emg 707 I did this to try and match the tone with axe two things I notice first and forthmost It sounds almost exact with the exception of Hi end screatching fizz or whatever you want to call it.

Hey mang. A couple of guys had mentioned starting over from scratch, and I tend to agree with them. I remember when I transitioned from a Cab to FOH and it made me totally rethink my patches. Here's my advice: If you can't get the tone you're looking for (at least 90% of the way there) with JUST the amp/cab combination alone, then no amount of EQing, cutting and/or other similar techniques will get you what you want.

That said, here are two additional things you may want to think about:

1) Add in a second cabinet. v30's are tricky and Hi end scratching fizz is a common complaint of guys using this type of speaker. You'll find that blending in a second cab will give you additional depth. Also, you'll find that magically some of the frequencies that you don't like get naturally cancelled out. It doesn't even have to be a 4x12.

2) Mess more with the OD block. The most useful trick I can think of is to roll back the mix knob. The ts808 is great for "de-farting" your chug, but too much will accentuate the fizz you're trying to get rid of.

Hope this helps!
-AL
 
I think my biggest issue is that I learned how to record and mix recordings with an am cab combo micd. But with the axe like you all said you got about 50 different places you can hi cut. My issue with that is from reading manual and other things the axe is suppose to model these amps as they would be on the preset settings. The only problem with that is no one knows what settings cliff used on the original to model or how he setting things. Too me it seems unatural to cut all these highs. Like I know what all of you are saying and I know how to tame them just wanted other opinions. I just feel like cutting all 8k all of 63k then in the cab block cut to 110 then 5.5 khz then pull more 8k, 4k, 2k, etc. I mean is that natural am I cutting too much. I load others patches even professional musicians that sound good live and they have them nasty highs I dont like. Maybe i am just too dang picky.
 
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