Taming ice picking without losing airness/liveness

Josetxu

Inspired
I've got an AX8 from more than a year but I've used it live twice. My main tones are different from most people here: I play Knopfler and Gilmour sounds in one group and I starting to play in a U2 tribute band. I mostly use the vibrolux, the twin, the comet 60 and the Hiwatt in the first group and AC30 in the second one. My main guitars are three strats with CS '69/SSL5, Klein 65 and Lollar blackface pickups and a japanese Tokai Les Paul with Antiquities.

I use a Matrix FR12 live and usually either of the groups PA for monitoring at rehearsal. With both can't get rid of ice picking. It's like there were two layers of sound: one the harsh, ice picking and other the rest of the sound. I can reduce treble, low the high cut in the cab block and notice that in the second "layer" but the other one, the ice picking, doesn't seems to change. It gets a bit better but with the downside of taking away the liveness of the sound.

Any tips to reduce ice picking?
 
Try dipping a few dB somewhere between 2-4k. My problem areas are usually around 2200 and 3800 as I use my own IR's of my cabs. Which IR''s are you using?
 
Make sure you not doing anything mad like mixing IRs with microphones baked in and using the microphone option in the cab block at the same time.
Make use of the Hi cut at 12db in the cab block. I sometimes like the sound from 5500 to 6500hz but try to not chop too much high end of and normally settle for around 7-7500hz.
If your using a drive pedal try backing off the tone a little.

otherwise this is the eternal question. That elusive creamy top end.
 
Hmmm, if it seems like there are two layers to the icepick: my prime suspect would be the monitors/PA, regardless of its pedigree ( a resonance issue?): Not a lot to be done at that end beyond EQ, AFAIK. Not a problem I've encountered.

The AX8 has a number of tools that effectively address the high end, so it may be possible to mitigate it somewhat, even if the problem is the PA. Depending on the amp model: GEQ tweaks in the amp block, Hicut, negative feedback and bright cap value are effective if the usual cab filtering, amp tone knobs aren't targeting or controlling the right frequencies. The SSL-5s are hotter than your vintage Strat Pickup but not overtly bright: still: lowering input trim means more headroom, and could help a little. Also: lowering the amount of the high resonance on the amp cab page or shifting it up or down in frequency can keep a resonance peak from being reinforced. If the issue is the guitar/pickup (that is to say not all guitars do it), then PEQ before the amp may work. An optical or studio compression block before the amp set to fastest attack 1ms, a quick12-25msrelease with a threshhold of about -6db to -12db a medium to high ratio and a mix of 50% can reign in overeager transient spikes without mucking with the overall dynamics. FWIW: I never felt like I had such complete command of a Tele Bridge pickup as with the AX8. In any case: good luck sorting it out.
 
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I wonder what a multi-band compressor would do, with high compression but lower output level, over the higher frequency range while leaving the other stuff uncompressed? It is CPU intensive though so not as friendly for Ax8 kitchen-sink patches.
 
Quick and effective fix for ice-pickiness: the tone knob on your guitar. You'll find the sweet spot.

I guess I just assumed that was the first solution. I typically set up amps/patches with the guitar tone at about 7 on a Strat/Tele or 9 on Humbuckers for some finesse and wiggle room, and between one guitar and another without having to visit the amp controls.

I have played some EL84 amps (maybe it was the tubes or possibly the amps were not properly designed or biased) that just had a resonant squeal to the power amp that was barely affected by any of the preamp or guitar tone controls or even the pitch of the notes. Possibly this "authenticity" though undesirable to my ears is replicated with some amp models and settings.

FWIW, with the AX8: I've been able to restrain even the baleful shriek of some misbegotten ceramic pickups.

What kind and material of construction of picks are you using?
Good point: I always have a variety on hand: often enough a standard medium or heavy, but I very often use the Dunlop 208 when softening the attack transient is called for - and is also my go to for bass when not playing finger style.
 
Try dipping a few dB somewhere between 2-4k. My problem areas are usually around 2200 and 3800 as I use my own IR's of my cabs. Which IR''s are you using?
For the Hiwatt: 156 — 4x12 STARFOUND MIX (TAF) — 4x12 WEM Starfinder with four custom Fane speakers, UltraRes

it's the one that sounds the less ice picking.

For the Comet 60: Owhammer Marshall 4x12 with EVM12L speaker (OH1 mix)

For the Fenders: Ownhammer 112 dlx with C12R+Vintage 30 OH1F mix

For the AC30: I was using the preset Top boost that has a stereo cab block with a silver and blue alnico mixes. I bought the cabir.eu new AC30 IRs but I found that they are what get the most ice picking sound using overdrives.

What kind and material of construction of picks are you using?

In the first group 60% fingers 40% ultex picks. In the U2 tribute the blue herdim picks (like the Edge)

Hmmm, if it seems like there are two layers to the icepick: my prime suspect would be the monitors/PA, regardless of its pedigree ( a resonance issue?): Not a lot to be done at that end beyond EQ, AFAIK. Not a problem I've encountered.

The AX8 has a number of tools that effectively address the high end, so it may be possible to mitigate it somewhat, even if the problem is the PA. Depending on the amp model: GEQ tweaks in the amp block, Hicut, negative feedback and bright cap value are effective if the usual cab filtering, amp tone knobs aren't targeting or controlling the right frequencies. The SSL-5s are hotter than your vintage Strat Pickup but not overtly bright: still: lowering input trim means more headroom, and could help a little. Also: lowering the amount of the high resonance on the amp cab page or shifting it up or down in frequency can keep a resonance peak from being reinforced. If the issue is the guitar/pickup (that is to say not all guitars do it), then PEQ before the amp may work. An optical or studio compression block before the amp set to fastest attack 1ms, a quick12-25msrelease with a threshhold of about -6db to -12db a medium to high ratio and a mix of 50% can reign in overeager transient spikes without mucking with the overall dynamics. FWIW: I never felt like I had such complete command of a Tele Bridge pickup as with the AX8. In any case: good luck sorting it out.

thanks

Quick and effective fix for ice-pickiness: the tone knob on your guitar. You'll find the sweet spot.

In the last gig, while playing Brothers in arms with the Tokai's neck pickup, I started to try to smoth the tone with the tone control: was the perfect example of the "two layers" I try to explain: the edgy attack remained while I could heard the underlayering sound darker.

Thanks for all the ideas
 
In the last gig, while playing Brothers in arms with the Tokai's neck pickup, I started to try to smoth the tone with the tone control: was the perfect example of the "two layers" I try to explain: the edgy attack remained while I could heard the underlayering sound darker.
Then there's something, somewhere in your signal chain, that's emphasizing ice-pick frequencies. It could be anything from the guitar to the FOH speakers. If it's consistent on all your presets—even the factory ones—then look for something global, like the PA or the AX8's global EQ.
 
+1 for testing with FAS presets. Takes a lot of ambiguity out of the picture, and serves as a baseline that everyone can easily discuss and troubleshoot from.
 
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