Taking the plunge

C

cleanplanets

Member
Hi guys,

At this point I'm just a guitar nerd home studio player - However I find it hard to stay inspired without good tone. I have tried all the VST plugin's, and I just cant seem to get along with any of them. they all sound lifeless and thin to my ears - maybe its my interface? (focusrite 6i6 gen2). I run from my interface to my 8" frfr monitors if I want to move some air, or my Sennheiser hd650's if I want to be quiet.

most recently I tried the pod go, and it sounded good, but had an annoying fizz/fuzziness that couldn't be EQ'd out without losing some feel. I tried playing with all the settings for each block, moved everything around etc. etc. etc.....at the end of the day it just wasn't cutting it for me.

after that out of curiosity I tried helix native - same story with the vst plugin thing. it just doesn't have that mojo I'm looking for.

so now going to take the plunge and go the axeIII or fm3 route. Over on the line 6 forum they tried to keep telling me that helix native can produce the same tone as the axeIII no problem, and I must have been doing something wrong :rolleyes:. How is my generic PC, and some cheap interface going to sound as good as a full fledged engineered dedicated piece of hardware like the axeIII? seems pretty strait forward to me?

Anyway, I don't need the complex presets that the axeIII can handle (although nice to have), but the dual amps has me interested. does the ability to have dual amps ( and everything else the axeIII has) make a noticeable benefit in tone / feel over the FM3? or is it more splitting hairs?
 
Welcome @cleanplanets

I know you really want to hear from someone that has at least played both AF3 & FM3, and I’ve not played the FM3. I do however own three AF3 units (one Mark II, two Mark I) and the level of preset flexibility/complexity needed might be the defining factor between the AF3 and the FM3. Both units sound glorious, listening to recordings from both. For me, the unlimited freedom of the AF3 made it the one, as long as it didn’t cause financial hardship. Best of luck with your decision. Lee
 
I have all the current gen fractal units and recommmend the fm3 if you don’t expect to have huge presets with tons of effects. The tones are ridiculously good even without running dual amps. Plus you can easily move it all over your house and jam with headphones which can be a huge bonus.
 
Axe 3 is the King of them all, tons of power and flexibility, but you really need an FC 6 or FC 12 with it to really have the external options available (stomp box mode, scene/patch select, etc). That can be a lot of $$$, but we’ll worth it. You’ll have an ever growing, ever evolving unit with a TON of studio quality amps, cabs, effects at your disposal for years to come. The FM3 is equally great in its own right..not as flexible or horsepower under the hood, but it does have 3 switches on board that can be configured, and is a lot less expensive than the Axe3 and FC.

Personally I predominantly use the Axe 3 with FC 12 over my FM3 and Axe8..don’t know exactly why other than the tones, sounds, and feel I have built in this thing are second to none and I’m just more accustomed to using it. Though the FM3 and AX8 are amazing kick ass sounding units.

Line 6 has come a long way, but their signature fizz is baked into their namesake. The closest thing to Fractal is still the Kemper, which still has no where near the quality of effects or flexibility. Neural has still yet to be seen. Head rush is decent too, a step up from the Line 6 stuff IMO. STL tones does as damn good job for plug ins, as does Presonus Ampire (surprisingly). But if you truly want to best of the best, GET THE AF3 and a FC12!
 
The Axe-Fx III has more processing power, more I/O, has tone matching capabilities, can be used to create IRs, has two amp blocks, and can fully utilize the ultrares IRs. The FM3 is less expensive, more portable (smaller form factor), and comes with three built in FC type switches. I'm sure there are some other differences that I'm missing, but those are some of the bigger ones. Assuming you are running the same patch on each, the tone should be nearly identical. The choice comes down to whether you want the extra features and power of the III or would rather have the slightly less capable FM3 and some additional cash in your pocket.

I strongly suspect that I could do everything I need with the FM3 but I like having the additional processing headroom and features of the III available to explore. If having dual amps is a big deal then the only way to go is the Axe-Fx III.
 
Hi Cleanplanets and welcome.
Your monitors need to be accurate - Make sure you have the best monitors you can afford. Asides from that, you will find an fm3 or Axe fx 3 to be the best purchase you have ever made.
thanks
pauly

cleanplanets said:
Hi guys,

At this point I'm just a guitar nerd home studio player - However I find it hard to stay inspired without good tone. I have tried all the VST plugin's, and I just cant seem to get along with any of them. they all sound lifeless and thin to my ears - maybe its my interface? (focusrite 6i6 gen2). I run from my interface to my 8" frfr monitors if I want to move some air, or my Sennheiser hd650's if I want to be quiet.

most recently I tried the pod go, and it sounded good, but had an annoying fizz/fuzziness that couldn't be EQ'd out without losing some feel. I tried playing with all the settings for each block, moved everything around etc. etc. etc.....at the end of the day it just wasn't cutting it for me.

after that out of curiosity I tried helix native - same story with the vst plugin thing. it just doesn't have that mojo I'm looking for.

so now going to take the plunge and go the axeIII or fm3 route. Over on the line 6 forum they tried to keep telling me that helix native can produce the same tone as the axeIII no problem, and I must have been doing something wrong :rolleyes:. How is my generic PC, and some cheap interface going to sound as good as a full fledged engineered dedicated piece of hardware like the axeIII? seems pretty strait forward to me?

Anyway, I don't need the complex presets that the axeIII can handle (although nice to have), but the dual amps has me interested. does the ability to have dual amps ( and everything else the axeIII has) make a noticeable benefit in tone / feel over the FM3? or is it more splitting hairs?
Click to expand...
 
Congrats man - The Axe is awesome and having used other things in the past (Line 6, Boss, Roland, Etc) I think you'll be pretty pleased with how it sounds and everything it can do!
 
Hmm. voice of dissent here. Helix native is a pretty competent plugin for producing realistic amp like tones. The fractal is indeed king of the heap, but if the Helix native isn’t doing it for you, this may not be a medium you’ll find satisfaction in. I can dial in helix native to be pretty convincing.
 
Bruce Sokolovic said:
Hmm. voice of dissent here. Helix native is a pretty competent plugin for producing realistic amp like tones. The fractal is indeed king of the heap, but if the Helix native isn’t doing it for you, this may not be a medium you’ll find satisfaction in. I can dial in helix native to be pretty convincing.
Click to expand...

Do you find many people that cant find satisfaction in this medium no matter what the brand of modeler?
 
cleanplanets said:
Do you find many people that cant find satisfaction in this medium no matter what the brand of modeler?
Click to expand...
Many? no, but some. It’s not an indictment of the medium, either, Its a lack of understanding a plugin coming out of a 6” speaker will be a different experience than a 100w head and 4x12 cabinet screaming in a bar, no matter what you tweak. Until a player understands the concepts, understands the products aims and intentions and is willing to invest the time to achieve their goals, there will be pain.
 
cleanplanets said:
Do you find many people that cant find satisfaction in this medium no matter what the brand of modeler?
Click to expand...
I've always been interested in tech and music - so back in the day I tried everything - the Boss multi effects, Line 6 POD, HD500, HD500X, and at that point was like "I don't know why everyone is talking about modelers being so good" but then I'd see like Glenn Delaune using a GT10 and making it sound amazing. I really gave up on the modeling thing for awhile but wanted to try it one more time but not mess around - went with AX8 and then was convinced that Fractal knew what they were doing and if it didn't work for me, the problem was most likely with me. hahahah
 
@cleanplanets I've had Helix floor, Kemper and Axe III... the Axe III is the clear winner, no contest. The Axe III is the only one of the three, while playing live, that didn't have me thinking "that's not how my amp would react" or "argh, what is that plinky frequency?" And it's the only one upon listening back to a live recording that could ever convince me that I was playing a real amp.

Your comment about not needing the elaborate preset capability sounds similar to the way I use it... dual amps, with my pedalboard in front of the Axe III. I don't use any of the Axe III's effects (not because they're not good, they are as good as any pedal, but because I'm more comfortable having tithe pedals at my feet.

If I were you, and budget isn't an issue, I'd go with the Axe III over the FM3. The dual amp capability of the Axe III is stunning. Here's a recording from our church from 12/20/2020. This is the Axe III's Matchless DC30 EF86 amps with my pedalboard in front. Check out the breakup in the swells during the intro, and then the breakup on the two note (G - A) interlude before the 2nd verse. The Axe III handles that kind of stuff so well, and reacts just like the amp.
 
I have both the Axe III and the FM3. Honestly, for 90% of what I do, the FM3 is more than sufficient. However, I got the III first a couple of years ago so I have just kept it and continue to enjoy it for some of those extra things that I may need....like a larger number of FX or some more complex parameters.

Either way, you can't go wrong with either unit. I've owned a Helix rack and a couple of Kemper units over the years. All great products on their own but for my ears and workflow, I really have grown to love the Fractal stuff and will continue to use it. The support and updates to the product are second to none.
 
My goal wasn’t to discourage you at all. Quite the contrary. I think users fire up a fractal or some other modeling device expecting things that aren’t realistic. We’ve seen users over the years here ditch a 4x12 and complain the fractal sounds different. Digging into their setup, it turns out they ALSO switched to in ears! Well yea, in ears will NEVER, EVER sound like 4 -12” speakers. So users and new users especially need to understand the many ways we hear guitar amps and use modelers accordingly.
 
PBGas said:
I have both the Axe III and the FM3. Honestly, for 90% of what I do, the FM3 is more than sufficient. However, I got the III first a couple of years ago so I have just kept it and continue to enjoy it for some of those extra things that I may need....like a larger number of FX or some more complex parameters.

Either way, you can't go wrong with either unit. I've owned a Helix rack and a couple of Kemper units over the years. All great products on their own but for my ears and workflow, I really have grown to love the Fractal stuff and will continue to use it. The support and updates to the product are second to none.
Click to expand...


thanks, so presumably you use the FM3 more?
 
nbc580 said:
I have all the current gen fractal units and recommmend the fm3 if you don’t expect to have huge presets with tons of effects. The tones are ridiculously good even without running dual amps. Plus you can easily move it all over your house and jam with headphones which can be a huge bonus.
Click to expand...

sounds like not having dual amps isn't that big of a deal. If it was a difference of opening up the sound and making a really noticeable difference I would go for it, but I gather from you guys its much more subtle?

all im going to do is the classic 3 tone basically - sparkly clean, mid gain crunch and some sort of all out delay / reverb high gain rippin' type sound :cool: . looks like the enhance block should make things open up nicely.
 
Using two amp blocks can be a big difference but you don't need it to get great tones. I suspect that running two amps simultaneously is not something that most people do.
 
I was in a similar spot and had the same feelings about Helix native. Even with Fremen presets I could not get along with it and thought I may not be a plugin/modeler guy. Then I had some glimmers of good tone from sgear, and some tone/feel from mecuriall spark. Finally the Neural DSP Cali went on sale and I demoed it and was really blown away at the dynamics and tone. At that moment I understood what the modeler guys had been saying about how good it is now was true. Bought an Axe-Fx III after that and it was a huge leap above even what I was starting to enjoy and I have been totally inspired and playing since then.

I would personally be a bit worried if I couldn’t find any plugins that at least showed glimmers of something I liked. If you haven’t tried Neural you can demo all their stuff at least and it may or may not help. I like archetype nolly quite a bit also.
 
Maybe frfr is not your thing. I started my digital journey with plugins, then Helix, then Kemper. I tried many studio monitors, headphones, frfr. Nothing worked for me. I ended buying a Matrix GT1000fx and an Engl 2x12 vertical cab with vintage 30. I couldn't be happier.
I use dual amps (stereo) with AF3 (one amp goes to the top speaker, the other goes to the bottom) and the sound and feel is amazing.
It sounds good also at low volume.
 
cleanplanets said:
sounds like not having dual amps isn't that big of a deal. If it was a difference of opening up the sound and making a really noticeable difference I would go for it, but I gather from you guys its much more subtle?

all im going to do is the classic 3 tone basically - sparkly clean, mid gain crunch and some sort of all out delay / reverb high gain rippin' type sound :cool: . looks like the enhance block should make things open up nicely.
Click to expand...
Just keep in mind that the amps are mono. So if you want stereo wet effects they have to be post amp. If you like wet effects in front of the amp, and you want stereo, you either need to run a hybrid with a delay in front in mono and then stereo after, or run two amps panned for stereo.
 
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