Switching amp channels

A

andersen

Inspired
Hi there

Ive recently bought a tube amp because i didn't manage the axe well enough in a band setting. Got way better sound but now I'm in a switching hell!!
I want to use the 4cm whenever i get to buy those damn hum buster cables. The thing that concerns me is: can the MFC switch the channels on my amp? And somehow arrange presets so i only need to stomp once?

for example if I'm in my disco rhythm sound and id like to switch to a lead sound i want to only stomp once a theres my delay-reverb-whatever sound boom!
Then i want to go from that into some clean sound with some other blocks with a single stomp. How is this possible when it involves switching the amp channel as well??
 
The MFC does not support amp channel switching directly (it has no relay switching), unless your amp supports MIDI switching.

For many amps you buy a MIDI-controlled switcher. You can then use the MFC to control that switcher, which in turn switches the channels.
RJM's AMP GIZMO is such a device.
 
Great! Thanks however it turns out that the gizmo will not work with my EVH 5150 III 100w tube head. So do you happen to know any other device of another brand maybe? Cant really find anything...
 
Seems you're SOL. The 50w does support MIDI switching, but the 100w doesn't.
 
andersen said:
Great! Thanks however it turns out that the gizmo will not work with my EVH 5150 III 100w tube head. So do you happen to know any other device of another brand maybe? Cant really find anything...
Click to expand...

Yes it does! I'm using my EVH 5150 III 100W with the RJM Amp Gizmo (you need a special cable from them) - I'm switching channels with a TC Electronics G-System. Works great. Only thing that you can't switch is the effects loop on/off - it remains on at all times.

I also have the MFC 101 Mark II - but in all honesty I haven't fired up my EVH for a very long time since I got the axe fx. I just haven't tried it with the MFC, but I could try and hook it up and see if it works, I don't see why it shouldn't.
 
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I have an RJM RG-16 , they make custom cables to switch channels of many many famous amps ... Shure 5150 is there ...
With RG-16 you can even add 8 FX loops for whatever your fantasy dreams about a guitar rig ... Awesome !
 
Google this "switching amp channels with midi"

Lot's of good products, the RJM, the Voodoo Lab Control Switcher, MAC-2 from Diamond etc.
 
I know about that cable, but as you say: the fx loop stays on at all times. This is not good enough for me. If I'm on channel 1 (clean) and has the fx loop engaged with some effects like reverb and delay for instance. Everything is all fine and dandy, but now i wanna switch to my rhythm sound on a high gain setting on channel 3, it switches and then the fx loop is still on with that reverb and delay, which i DONT want in a ryhtm tone…
I posted a comment in the thread of the coming soon fx8 and asked if that unit will be compatible with my tube head, but I'm afraid not as it is the din-7 cable in the amp and a 1/4 cable in the fx8.

fucking cables…...
 
Why could you not just leave the effects loop engaged and switch off the effects in the axe when you don't need them? Otherwise pick up the RJM effect gizmo or RG-16 or something similar and route the axe four cable method through that. Then you can switch the axe in and out of the EVH's loop. If thats confusing let me know. This was the exact rig I was thinking of going for when I first bought my ultra.
 
Well it depends on your axe fx knowledge and my lack there of with the EVH.

My 1st point is you could use something to simply control the amp channels via midi through from the axe as stated above like the amp gizmo. Also while using 4 cable method why not just bypass the reverb and delay when you switch to channel 3? Your signal would still be passing through the axe's converters of course, but if those effects are bypassed you wont hear anything but the EVH channel 3. This of course is all with one button.

Now, if you have a problem with the signal still passing through the axe fx's converters that is where a midi loop switcher such and the RG-16 or effects Gizmo come into play. You can connect the axe fx to your EVH in 4 cable method but be able to switch the Axe completely out of the signal chain. Take a look at this diagram...

http://www.rjmmusic.com/wiring/RG-16/RG-16_AXE.pdf

This is of course an expensive route. One reason which led me to just use the axe fx and power amp.
 
andersen said:
I know about that cable, but as you say: the fx loop stays on at all times. This is not good enough for me. If I'm on channel 1 (clean) and has the fx loop engaged with some effects like reverb and delay for instance. Everything is all fine and dandy, but now i wanna switch to my rhythm sound on a high gain setting on channel 3, it switches and then the fx loop is still on with that reverb and delay, which i DONT want in a ryhtm tone…
I posted a comment in the thread of the coming soon fx8 and asked if that unit will be compatible with my tube head, but I'm afraid not as it is the din-7 cable in the amp and a 1/4 cable in the fx8.

fucking cables…...
Click to expand...

Well you're going to have the same problem using the FX8 in that way. Your loop stays on at all times, but you're controlling all the effects from the Axe FX - The easiest way to do this is using scenes.

Scenario here is as you described:

Channel 1 uses clean with reverb and delay--> You switch to channel 3 rhythm tone with no effects at all.

so for that setup you need 2 scenes (you can have a total of 8 )

Scene 1 controls this:

Amp Channel 1 ON, Reverb ON and Delay ON

Scene 2 controls this:

Amp Channel 3 ON, Reverb OFF and Delay OFF

In both instances your fx loop is always on - but your time based effects are off for any channel you choose to set it up with. More on scenes can be found in the manual. Now if you feel the fx loop is degrading your tone, well then that's a different story. But to be honest, that loop in the EVH is really good and I barely notice the coloration, unless I have a bunch of pedals in there.

So the only tap dance that you will do is changing scenes.
 
I know all of this sounds confusing (The axe fx can be a tricky thing to work with sometimes, given all the options) - but in short terms your solution is the RJM Amp Gizmo (or something equivalent) and Scenes within the Axe FX.
 
Even if the 4CM method is really desirable for "tone" and professional switchers can help letting stuff outside signal chain , I refused to go with Amps FX loops because I considere this way too much pro ... I have an hell of tone with my analog rig just with all fx before the amp and choosing a good delay that really allows you to MIX the effect ... Then switcher do the job letting all unnecessary fx out of the SC.

I tried in the past with my 150w Triple Recto SoloHead the fX loop way and the 4CM way ... Let me say that ( almost with parallel Mesa Fx loop) everytime the loop is on the tone goes 50% away ... It really sucks .

I'm not using reverb at all ... Only delays (with a timefactor ) with just 6% wet mix ...

All this stuff can be done obviously by the Axe... Let yourFX loop sleeping
If you want the tone and don't want to become crazy ... This is the way IMHO

My last 2 cents ... Buying great stuff and all the best device for your 4cm purpose don't assure you to reach the goal if you can't let make things by an AmpTech
 
Noriuky73 said:
Even if the 4CM method is really desirable for "tone" and professional switchers can help letting stuff outside signal chain , I refused to go with Amps FX loops because I considere this way too much pro ... I have an hell of tone with my analog rig just with all fx before the amp and choosing a good delay that really allows you to MIX the effect ... Then switcher do the job letting all unnecessary fx out of the SC.

I tried in the past with my 150w Triple Recto SoloHead the fX loop way and the 4CM way ... Let me say that ( almost with parallel Mesa Fx loop) everytime the loop is on the tone goes 50% away ... It really sucks .

I'm not using reverb at all ... Only delays (with a timefactor ) with just 6% wet mix ...

All this stuff can be done obviously by the Axe... Let yourFX loop sleeping
If you want the tone and don't want to become crazy ... This is the way IMHO

My last 2 cents ... Buying great stuff and all the best device for your 4cm purpose don't assure you to reach the goal if you can't let make things by an AmpTech
Click to expand...

Good points.

It can be tricky to setup pedals / rackmount efx in an amp's loop.

It's almost never just plug and play in regards to order of efx how they are wired, levels and so on. It's a game of not tone sucking (sometimes a pedal, even off, kills the tone) and not raising the noise floor / background hiss.
 
SockPuppet said:
Well you're going to have the same problem using the FX8 in that way. Your loop stays on at all times, but you're controlling all the effects from the Axe FX - The easiest way to do this is using scenes.

Scenario here is as you described:

Channel 1 uses clean with reverb and delay--> You switch to channel 3 rhythm tone with no effects at all.

so for that setup you need 2 scenes (you can have a total of 8 )

Scene 1 controls this:

Amp Channel 1 ON, Reverb ON and Delay ON

Scene 2 controls this:

Amp Channel 3 ON, Reverb OFF and Delay OFF

In both instances your fx loop is always on - but your time based effects are off for any channel you choose to set it up with. More on scenes can be found in the manual. Now if you feel the fx loop is degrading your tone, well then that's a different story. But to be honest, that loop in the EVH is really good and I barely notice the coloration, unless I have a bunch of pedals in there.

So the only tap dance that you will do is changing scenes.
Click to expand...

Thx for the reply dude. I'm totally familiar with scenes, but the thing is that i need to tap the scene button on my mfc to change it AND i need to tap the EVH footswitch to change the channel. And thats what i wanted to avoid…. BUT you wrote in your second reply that in short terms i need the amp gizmo. How is that working in your/my scenario?

Really appreciate you explaining in details for me. Thanks
 
andersen said:
Thx for the reply dude. I'm totally familiar with scenes, but the thing is that i need to tap the scene button on my mfc to change it AND i need to tap the EVH footswitch to change the channel. And thats what i wanted to avoid…. BUT you wrote in your second reply that in short terms i need the amp gizmo. How is that working in your/my scenario?

Really appreciate you explaining in details for me. Thanks
Click to expand...

No problem, just glad I can help a fellow guitarist :)

Well you can ditch the EVH pedal completely with this setup, basically what you do is program the axe fx to send MIDI data so that the amp gizmo knows what it should do (ie. change channels)

So your mfc is now controlling the the EVH's channels as well as the individual effects in the Axe FX.

But as the gentlemen above stated, if you feel that the effects loop is sucking tone then you're kind of stuck with tap dancing or a really expensive switching system + lots of things that can go wrong in a live situation.

I personally don't think it affects the tone that much, at least not that much that it is bothering me. The thing that bothers me is that the amp weighs a ton with my rack and cabinet - so I just use the axe fx with a gt1000fx and a zilla 2x12 - and it sounds better than the amp.

Just noticed that Keg8605 basically said the same thing as I did. :)
 
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Yeah i just seen different videos about the rjm mini amp gizmo unit and i get the idea of that setup now. Thanks man ill definetly try it out once i can get all the gear needed. But tell me one thing dude, when the axe is in 4cm in this setup. Have you exp a lot of noise and/or did you get the humbuster cables?
And do you think there are settings within the menues of the axe that needs changing in order to use this setup?

You really think the axe/matrix sounds better then the evh??
Gee i just returned my matrixgt1000fx because i wasnt satisfied with the sound:/ but i kind of know that its likely my lack of axe-knowledge that was causing the bad sound. But anyways now im gonna get a killer setup thanks to your help;) a heavy one though
 
In this case your questions are a Little pointless because you are in search for the sound you have in your mind .
Probably not the same that mine or others fellows here .
But everything is good because our quest here is to find a way to be near to this "sound" with our gear wathever it be ...

Almost until the next gear purchase !

This is a long and probably never ending quest !
You will need a lot of study ( for sure ) and make some mistake too to reach good results .

You want to use the Axe maybe in this scenario with an amp gizmo or something like that ??
Fine!
Someone can help you with settings ? Sure ! You're welcome !
But you need to study a little bit your axe manual and try by yourself if you want to manage your gear in the right way ... This is your real goal .

Without this knowledge and understandings you'll never be really able to dial in great sounds from your stuff ... THIS really sucks !

BTW... Talking about this configuration , depending on the midi controller of your choice ... no need of particularly setup of your axe ... Maybe only choose midi channel for the midi devices ( Axe and Amp Gizmo? ) and a great lecture of the features and manuals of your Midi controller .
If you run more than 1 midi device such the Axe , and you are running the MFC , you can't run it in Axe Fx Mode ... Because you need to send 2 or 3 program changes at the same time for the axe etc.

Hope this helps , good luck !
 
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