SVT & AxeFX revelations

jimfist

jimfist

Fractal Fanatic
Dusted off the old SVT 8x10 cabinet, installed it in our rehearsal studio (for practical reasons, less stuff to lug in/out for rehearsals) and also out of curiosity to see what my AxeFx Ultra would sound like with cab sims disabled, and powered with a Crown Xti2 4000 solid state power amp rather than the SVT Classic all tube head.

Now, a few things first: I love my SVT rig!! But I hate, hate, HATE moving it (the older I get, the more it is an issue), and honestly, there are only a few gigs per year where it is even appropriate for me to use it (a bassist's happiness is proportional to the number of dirty looks the singer and FOH mixer give you for being too loud - LOL). I replaced my SVT rig with a more modular, compact rig consisting of the AxeFx, Crown amp, and a pair of full range Ciare coaxial 15" speakers (two cabinets, one per cabinet). So my back is much happier, and I have flexibility galore, and I do like the way my bass sounds through this rig, although in all honesty it is (as expected) a completely different animal than the SVT rig.

So, after connecting everything to the 8x10 cabinet and disabling cab sims in the AxeFx, it took all of about 30 seconds to dial this thing in properly and...holy crap! What a GREAT sound. The AxeFx passed with flying colors and I was absolutely floored by this combination. In fact, I'd hazard to say that I'm going to sell the SVT Classic head as the AxeFx provides everything that the tube head delivers and then some (in terms of tonal flexibility, EQ, dynamics, etc.).

All that said, I do believe that much of this has to do with the simple fact that the 8x10 cabinet is enforcing it's tonal will on the sound, and that is where much of the "good stuff" is coming from...that and blowing the windows out with sheer volume (...hey...I'm a bassist...).

So, just figured I'd share. The AxeFx is a great solution across the board IMO for bassists, whether it be for direct FRFR solutions, or as a replacement to a rack of processing, foot pedals, and powered amp head (tube or otherwise) going into a traditional bass cab.

[edit: btw, the amp model I'm using here is, of course, the SVT Bass amp model in the AxeFx.]
 
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I recently bought a bass (Classic Vibe P-Bass), mainly because the Axe could double as a quality bass preamp.

I do agree we should get more bass amps in the future but right now the Tube Pre and SVT models alone cover alot of ground.
 
JayNo said:
I recently bought a bass (Classic Vibe P-Bass), mainly because the Axe could double as a quality bass preamp.

I do agree we should get more bass amps in the future but right now the Tube Pre and SVT models alone cover alot of ground.
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What about the best Bass Cab IRs? Any thoughts?
 
Tonemeister said:
What about the best Bass Cab IRs? Any thoughts?
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a lot of flavors in the Redwirez SVT 8x10 collection. With the AxeFxII, the enhanced cabinet block parameters give you a ton of flexibility to boot. I wouldn't sell that short. I've had some really cool results with the 1x15 bass cabinet stock in the AFXII, if you like that kind of tone with the top end really rolled-off, 1970s vibe.

Context is everything...sometimes I don't use IRs at all and let the tone controls on the bass and my right hand handle the tone options. Depends on the bass itself, the player, and how much flexibility you need. Some basses require more "help" than others do, whether it be your playing technique or implementing EQ and dynamics processing, etc.

I like it all. That's why I love the AxeFX. If I want the heavy footprint of a cabinet IR, there it is. If I only need the other processors or the preamp functions, just as good.
 
Axe-FX II. I'm not really looking for anything specific. But even though I always end up using my own presets (at least with guitar presets), I like to check out other people's approach. I have a couple of home grown SVT presets (which I often blend with the DI signal) which are OK, but generally they are very basic. I guess I'm more used to dialing in guitar tone than bass tone. So I figured you maybe had a couple of go-to presets I could learn a thing or two from.
 
Richard_G said:
Axe-FX II. I'm not really looking for anything specific. But even though I always end up using my own presets (at least with guitar presets), I like to check out other people's approach. I have a couple of home grown SVT presets (which I often blend with the DI signal) which are OK, but generally they are very basic. I guess I'm more used to dialing in guitar tone than bass tone. So I figured you maybe had a couple of go-to presets I could learn a thing or two from.
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Well, I hope I can help. What style of music are you into, what kind of bass do you use, what kind of tones float your boat? Also, what do you use to audition bass sounds?

Just to disclose what I'm using for gear - my regular duty basses for many years have been Schecter and Guild Pilot basses with EMG pickups...lately, more the Schecter Studio elite and Exotic Studio Elite, though. They're pretty good basses for a broad range of standard tones and I find especially good for metal. Recently I purchased a very nice "boutique" bass which has really made a huge difference in my sound, and I'm still putting it through its paces and getting used to its many different sweet spots. I don't currently have a Fender Jazz, P Bass, or anything considered traditional, or with a traditional "trademark" sound to it. So hopefully we aren't coming from different universes here, or you may find that the things that work well for me on my basses, and with my approach to playing, may not work great from your perspective. I play both with pick and fingers including pop/slap.

All that said, sure, I'll hook you up with some of my sounds and you can have a go at them. I'll have to check what firmware I'm using, though. I think I'm still on fw8.
 
JayNo said:
I recently bought a bass (Classic Vibe P-Bass), mainly because the Axe could double as a quality bass preamp.

I do agree we should get more bass amps in the future but right now the Tube Pre and SVT models alone cover alot of ground.
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The other thing of course is that there are a whole bunch of different guitar amps that can also be used to cover even more ground. Run the SVT for the low end, blend in another amp for a bit of mid-range grit or whatever.
 
AxeFxII Bass Demo by jimfist on SoundCloud - Create, record and share your sounds for free

Here are a bunch of bass clips that I threw together last night (some licks you may recognize). All of these sounds are direct recorded via USB into Audacity. The preset uses only the BOUTIQUE 1 amp block and a compressor block afterward set to just a mild bit of leveling compression. [ I ain't the greatest player in the world for sure, and I didn't particularly labor over the parts or expect these tones to be "finished/mastered" sounding, but rather representative of what you might get from a typical uneffected bass rig/direct. These tones would certainly need further tone shaping and dynamics processing to be made appropriate for use in a final mix of any kind, IMO.]

The purpose of this is to demonstrate the tonal options available without changing any of the settings on the amp model in the AxeFxII itself, and without the use of cabinet IRs. All of the tonal variations come from the instrument and the method of playing.

If you follow the link to the Soundcloud page, you'll see descriptions of each clip, such as "Bass no IR Both Tone 10 w boost Pop Slap". Both = both bridge and neck pickups; Tone = setting from 0-10 (full roll-off to full treble); Pop Slap playing technique (also "fingers" and "pick"); boost = treble boost pull switch at 4khz engaged

Here are the settings used on the Boutique 1 amp (unless noted, all other settings default):

drive: .98
bass: 5
mid <fat>: 3.94
treble <bright> : 3.05
comp: 66.3%

hi cut: 0
depth: 4.97
master; 5.74
level: 9.5db
amp voicing: modern

amp graphic EQ flat except at 8khz: -8.32


supply sag: 4.00
dynamics: 0%
xformer match: 1.000
xformer drive: 1.00

Some of these tones are a bit extreme, especially the one where the Neck pickup with tone on "0" (zero) [this clip removed for reasons of suck]. On laptop speakers you may not even hear anything since the roll-off is so steep in the low end. Obviously, depending on the bass and electronics used, YMMV in terms of the extremes possible on your instrument. Strings are fairly well-used and have about 2 months of regular use on them.

What is different about using the AxeFx with the bass vs. electric guitar (NOT acoustic guitars) is that bass tones can be perfectly viable without the necessary use of cabinet IRs. It seems that with guitar, the cabinet impulse is an incredibly key part of the overall equation as you generally wouldn't like the sound of an overdriven or distorted guitar direct out of the preamp with no cabinet IR.

When I get some time I'll create some more complex stuff and do a series of clips with various cabinet IRs added for comparison. Comments, suggestions, etc. all appreciated.

[edit: after listening to the clips on Soundcloud and sensing that something really wasn't quite right, I re-examined my compressor settings on the AxeFxII and saw that there was in fact much more compression than I thought was on there, and it needed to be backed off. Concluding that the posted clips were all basically CRAP, I've started over with the above NEW set of soundcloud clips - some with drum loops accompanying... hoping these do a better job of getting the point across.]
 
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Thanks, jimfist. I'll try your suggested settings and play around with the settings on my bass (Music Man Stingray).
 
How do you like the Stingray? I tried a few at the local music retailer recently and couldn't find one that tickled my funny bone, and I really, REALLY wanted it to. This has been the case for many years, now, with regards to the Music Man basses. Maybe they're set up bad, or suffer from overplaying and dead strings, but I've never played one that I immediately liked much. Also seemed to me that it needed a fair amount of dynamics processing up front in order for the sound to hold together. I'm sure this isn't the case with all of them as their reputation and client list speaks for itself. Funny thing is that some of the basses in the $500 or less range played and sounded better right out of the gate by comparison (Ibanez Soundgear and Schecter Raiden Special-4 basses), and at more than $1000 less cost. Oh well.

Richard_G, what are you using for playback of your bass?
 
jimfist said:
How do you like the Stingray?
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Actually, I like my Stingray a lot. Any problems with controlling the dynamics with my particular one I have to blame on the player (i.e. me = not a bass player). I also have a cheap Yamaha bass (BB414), but a friend has borrowed it for a while now and I don't miss it.

jimfist said:
Richard_G, what are you using for playback of your bass?
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I'm not a bassist, so most of the time I only use it to put down bass lines when recording song ideas at home. Thus, most of the the time I hear the bass through my studio monitors (Neumann KH120). Although the monitors are great and have decent bass response for their size, not having a sub can make creating bass patches challenging.

When I have stepped in as a bassist in projects, I have been forced to use whatever was available.
 
Richard_G said:
Actually, I like my Stingray a lot. Any problems with controlling the dynamics with my particular one I have to blame on the player (i.e. me = not a bass player). I also have a cheap Yamaha bass (BB414), but a friend has borrowed it for a while now and I don't miss it.



I'm not a bassist, so most of the time I only use it to put down bass lines when recording song ideas at home. Thus, most of the the time I hear the bass through my studio monitors (Neumann KH120). Although the monitors are great and have decent bass response for their size, not having a sub can make creating bass patches challenging.

When I have stepped in as a bassist in projects, I have been forced to use whatever was available.
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Cool. Glad you got a good one (Stingray). I'm kind of opposite on all counts in that I'm a bassist and not a guitarist at all, without any "real" home studio gear, speakers or listening environment. I fear that my audio clips suffer for this as I only monitored using some really cheap ear buds. LOL my bad. That being the case, the things that you can do to make the bass behave a little better would be to reduce the depth, lower bass or low freqs on the EQ in the Amp Block, or throw a high pass filter in the chain. Also, you could adjust the compressor or use the multiband compressor to tame the low end in the bass frequencies. I haven't really heard the clips I made on a good system, so I'm curious about them...I may revisit this later tonight and do some surgery to make the tones a little "prettier" for general consumption. Also sounds now like the compressor settings are a bit funky...oh well. =)
 
feliperigby said:
Hey jimfist what do you think about using matrix amplification as poweramp for bass?

Good deal?
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Matrix produces excellent amps from all accounts. I wish I owned one! From all accounts and specs, there is no reason why the Matrix wouldn't sound great with the AxeFx for bass, of course depending on your speaker cabinet(s) and volume SPL needs. I believe I read on the forum some guitarists who do double-duty on bass using the Matrix amps. Unfortunately, I don't have any first hand experience for you to draw upon.
 
Hey Jim!

Good to see another dedicated bassist around these parts - I've noticed we're a bit few and far between :)

When I have the time, I know I'd like to pick your brain about how you go about creating patches, what you look for with your own personal tones, etc.

I'm playing a 5-string Warwick Streamer Stage 2 and a 5-string Warwick Thumb NT.

Used to run an SVT2-PRO into a Bergantino NV610 but now am running the II into a Crown poweramp for practices, and took the plunge and have been staying "in the box" completely when playing shows!

Anyway...that's me, sorry to thread hijack :)
 
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