Suggested starting points for Metallica-style dual amp Mesa IIC+ / Diezel VH4 setup?

SinglecutGuy

SinglecutGuy

Inspired
Hi, everyone. Has anyone had any luck with trying a dual amp set up with these two amps to approach the more modern Metallica style tone? I don't know either of these amps very well IRL but know the tones of the IIC+. The Diezel seems out of my league when I try to blend it with a IIC+. Are they running one for certain frequency range and the other to blend in? I don't necessarily want "Metallica's tone" but I like the ball park that it seems like these two amps get into from listening to Metallica live and the recordings.

I've always had difficulty understanding how to approach the IIC+ in the AxeFX, especially with the 5-band EQ. Any suggestions are much appreciated.
 
In the Hetfield-type setup, the IIC+ has WAY more high end while the VH4 is more low-focused. Together they create a much more full-range type sound, with a little crossover in the mids.

Live, Hetfield has said before that the IIC+ is the main amp sound relied on while the VH4 is mixed in at a lower level, and I suspect the process is the same when recording them too.
 
This is great information, thank you. Is there any evidence of which channel on the VH4 he tends to use for this blend?

I seem to be having an issue with the bottom end of the VH4, it sounds a little flubby to me.
 
I believe it's channel 3 like basically everyone who blends these amps uses. I don't remember where I saw it but I did see a post once that purported to have Hetfield's VH4 settings shown, so I suspect they're available somewhere if you look hard enough
 
Leon has a good dialing in a mark video somewhere? Dig around on his youtube channel.

If you are still trying to get the hang of an amp, especially something as complex as a Mark; I'd focus on it versus learning it AND trying to set up a dual amp rig?
 
JiveTurkey said:
Leon has a good dialing in a mark video somewhere? Dig around on his youtube channel.

If you are still trying to get the hang of an amp, especially something as complex as a Mark; I'd focus on it versus learning it AND trying to set up a dual amp rig?
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That’s certainly a good point. Might be taking on more than I can chew. It’s the interaction between the two that I don’t understand. But @JDR3009 had a lot of good information.
 
SinglecutGuy said:
This is great information, thank you. Is there any evidence of which channel on the VH4 he tends to use for this blend?

I seem to be having an issue with the bottom end of the VH4, it sounds a little flubby to me.
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The Dizzy Silver 3. I have 2 dual amp presets for their newer live tones. One with D Silver 3 and another with Blue 3. I've posted them before to pretty decent feedback (unless people were holding back lol) Channel 3 is the most important thing, it's more "open"/ dry, and has less compression, which is the bread and butter of their newer tones. Use a low cut on the amp pre input block, and in the post eq for anything under 125hz. I boost both also, that helps. If your not the boosting type, a pre eq mid boost around 750-1000 hz helps smooth the lows out also. I know your aiming to do it yourself, but if you want I'll post you my preset and you can do whatever you want with it. It's in a pretty great spot imho, but systems/ears vary. Also, go easy on the master volume for each, that helps with opening the sound up and the flub. For the 2c++, the sweet spot is around 4 to 4.5 (number wise) and the Dizzy around 4-5 tops. If you are running the MV higher on one than the other, you can compensate by adjusting the overall volume level in the amp block.
 
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I have not tried those two, but my main dirty preset uses a two amp setup with a Recto2 Red Modern and 6160+ Lead. To me, blending two amps like this gives a very nuanced modern metal tone which fits your liking.

My advice would be pan them left and right with their own cabs, start with the defaults, then tweak tone controls, including input/output EQ, to taste. Also, put an OD in front (I use T808 Mod in the amp block on each amp). It will be a fun exercise (IMO)! You may not sound exactly like Metallica, but you probably won't anyway...no mater how you create your preset.
 
One thing I do with any of the Mark series amps for this kind of thing is, instead of going for a V shaped EQ, I go for a W shape. That is, for me the scoop occurs at 240 and 2200, but I bring up 750 just a hair above zero, and I boost 80 and 6600 to taste. For me the tone ends up being much meatier that way.
 
State of Epicicity said:
One thing I do with any of the Mark series amps for this kind of thing is, instead of going for a V shaped EQ, I go for a W shape. That is, for me the scoop occurs at 240 and 2200, but I bring up 750 just a hair above zero, and I boost 80 and 6600 to taste. For me the tone ends up being much meatier that way.
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That's interesting. I have I love hate relationship with those 2 frequencies. To much 240 gets "boxy" but can also add "girth", and 2200 can get "scratchy" but can also add "attack" in a lot of my cases. What I go for is similar, I scoop that boxy 240 a bit, but I bump the 2200 for some attack. 👍
 
jayjay347912 said:
That's interesting. I have I love hate relationship with those 2 frequencies. To much 240 gets "boxy" but can also add "girth", and 2200 can get "scratchy" but can also add "attack" in a lot of my cases. What I go for is similar, I scoop that boxy 240 a bit, but I bump the 2200 for some attack. 👍
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Oh yeah, that totally makes sense. It's all so contextual; what you need can change quite a bit based on the resonant peak of your guitar / pickup combination as well as the IR or real world cab you play through. But over time that formula definitely hit well for me. I've found too often the the V scoop just feels a little hollow, lacking in some grit and character to my ears, so bumping up the middle frequency just a hair above zero and scooping the frequencies on either side of it just sounds modern and refined but still with character. And I'm with you on your descriptions of 240 and 2200. I'm sure 240 was selected specifically for its boxiness, to let you target specifcally what many players would want to get rid of. Even when I've tried many other EQ configurations on the Mesa series, that 240 always goes down haha. I've had one configuration where the highest boost was on the left, with a scoop at 240, then the rest were all boosted a little less as they go along, like a descending graph, with 240 being the only actual reduction.
 
State of Epicicity said:
Oh yeah, that totally makes sense. It's all so contextual; what you need can change quite a bit based on the resonant peak of your guitar / pickup combination as well as the IR or real world cab you play through. But over time that formula definitely hit well for me. I've found too often the the V scoop just feels a little hollow, lacking in some grit and character to my ears, so bumping up the middle frequency just a hair above zero and scooping the frequencies on either side of it just sounds modern and refined but still with character. And I'm with you on your descriptions of 240 and 2200. I'm sure 240 was selected specifically for its boxiness, to let you target specifcally what many players would want to get rid of. Even when I've tried many other EQ configurations on the Mesa series, that 240 always goes down haha. I've had one configuration where the highest boost was on the left, with a scoop at 240, then the rest were all boosted a little less as they go along, like a descending graph, with 240 being the only actual reduction.
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Mids are necessary. I wish my 14 year old self new this🤣🤣 Hetfield discovering them with Bob Rock making T.B.Album was a significant point in metal history 😎 Here's to mids\m/
 
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