Stupid MIDI question

[mwd]

You desire 4 amps with 8 scenes of FX giving 32 combinations. You want to separate the amps from the FX but it sounds like the FX would be identical for each amp. Under your design you would have to switch both channels and scenes to function as you wish. So why not create 4 presets, one for each amp and replicate your 8 FX scenes in each preset.

With an FC-12 you could use 8 of the buttons to control the scenes and the other 4 to select your amp. By holding down the buttons you could access other features such as tuner/mute, looper, etc.

 

[FullThrottle64]

You desire 4 amps with 8 scenes of FX giving 32 combinations. You want to separate the amps from the FX but it sounds like the FX would be identical for each amp. Under your design you would have to switch both channels and scenes to function as you wish. So why not create 4 presets, one for each amp and replicate your 8 FX scenes in each preset.

With an FC-12 you could use 8 of the buttons to control the scenes and the other 4 to select your amp. By holding down the buttons you could access other features such as tuner/mute, looper, etc.

That's fine, but the problem is that when changing presets the amp channel also changes - and I probably do not want it to change.

It's not cool to be in the middle of a nice clean arpeggiated passage and have the amp go to high-gain when you try to shift to a chorus FX patch, nor to drop to clean in the middle of a screaming rock lead.

 

[Admin M@]

Using two Axe-Fx units is not a terribly unreasonable way to do this kind of crazy stuff. You can interconnect them via AES which adds no additional latency.

 

[FullThrottle64]

Using two Axe-Fx units is not a terribly unreasonable way to do this kind of crazy stuff. You can interconnect them via AES which adds no additional latency.

Sure - and that's effectively what I'm doing today (and what every legacy amp player is doing). I have an amp with a pedal controller, and a separate MIDI FX rack with a pedal controller. It turns my sound selection into a matrix, with one dimension being the amp channel, and the the other being the FX preset.

Honestly, I'm surprised that none of the major modeller products allow you to work this way (at least the ones that sound good). It's pretty much the way anyone works with a channel-switching amp.....

 

[mwd]

That's fine, but the problem is that when changing presets the amp channel also changes

The amp channels are irrelevant. You have replaced using 4 channels (to select which of your 4 amps you want) with 4 presets that select the amp you desire. Additionally channels don't change when switching presets unless you have forced them to do so by saving them in that state.

 

[LiamH]

Yes, but I get the problem FullThrottle64 is talking about. When changing presets the FX chain will drop back to the default scene for the new preset, even though the amp channel has now become irrelevant. Makes it pretty easy to see the potential benefit of being able to disable channel selection via scene changes for certain blocks. It would enable 8 effect scenes, and 4 independently selectable amp channels in a single FC-12 layout.

Probably wouldn't be for me, but I can see how it would work for others. I never really got the hang of channel switching amps as they all seemed to carry such major tone compromises between channels, so my head is is never quite in that space when setting up the Axe FX III.

Liam

 

[FullThrottle64]

The amp channels are irrelevant. You have replaced using 4 channels (to select which of your 4 amps you want) with 4 presets that select the amp you desire. Additionally channels don't change when switching presets unless you have forced them to do so by saving them in that state.

OK, but if I'm in preset 1 running scene 3, and I want to go to Preset 4 scene 3, it's not going to to go direct, right? I have to explicity change to scene 3 when I get to preset 4, right? That leaves time when it's in some undetermined scene in the new preset.

I'm not sure you're getting what I'm trying to do.

With a normal amp, I have one button to select my amp channel - and ONLY the amp channel. I have another set of buttons to select FX presets - and ONLY FX presets. Neither of them change based on the other's state.

My current amp has 6 gain settings, and a basic MIDI controller gives me 10 direct access presets. That's 60 possible sounds from 10 FX presets and 6 amp settings. I don't really want to have to build all 60 individual presets, nor do I want to have to scroll through 6 banks to get to them.

As noted above, the easy way to do it would be to use one AxeFX for the amp and another for the FX....but that means I have to purchase and carry two of them. All in, it's probably less money and stuff than I have in my amp, loadbox, mixer and FX units, but it's still a big ticket.

 

[FullThrottle64]

Yes, but I get the problem FullThrottle64 is talking about. When changing presets the FX chain will drop back to the default scene for the new preset, even though the amp channel has now become irrelevant. Makes it pretty easy to see the potential benefit of being able to disable channel selection via scene changes for certain blocks. It would enable 8 effect scenes, and 4 independently selectable amp channels in a single FC-12 layout.

Probably wouldn't be for me, but I can see how it would work for others. I never really got the hang of channel switching amps as they all seemed to carry such major tone compromises between channels, so my head is is never quite in that space when setting up the Axe FX III.

Yeah, I've been living with channel-switching amps for so long that I can honestly say that I haven't used a drive or distortion pedal in a couple of decades. I ditched that approach when the MP-1 came out and never looked back. Of course, it helps to have a well-designed amp in the first place.

 

[FullThrottle64]

Using two Axe-Fx units is not a terribly unreasonable way to do this kind of crazy stuff. You can interconnect them via AES which adds no additional latency.

Could I do that with a FM3 and Axe-FX? FM3 for amps and Axe-FX for the FX....hmm.....FM3 doesn't have AES, but maybe....

 

[Joe Bfstplk]

Could I do that with a FM3 and Axe-FX? FM3 for amps and Axe-FX for the FX....hmm.....FM3 doesn't have AES, but maybe....

Theoretically, with a single amp block, you'd get access to four amp channels.

With addition of a control switch to kick in the Amp block input boost, you could double that to 8 gain levels pretty easily.

With clever setup of your three FM3 buttons, you could do what I do on my AxeFX3 for one or two of my templates, which is to set up the amp with a couple channel toggle switches:

• one set up to toggle between channel A and B
• the other set up to toggle between C and B
• both with B as the 'secondary' (i.e., dim LED) channel

This would give you easy, one-stomp access to three Amp block channels on those two switches, and boost on/off on the other switch, all with easy visual indication of status via the LEDs around the switch buttons.

Then, get your AxeFX3 and FC controller set up to handle your effects.

Connect the two via SPDIF, and you're golden.

 

[FullThrottle64]

Theoretically, with a single amp block, you'd get access to four amp channels.

With addition of a control switch to kick in the Amp block input boost, you could double that to 8 gain levels pretty easily.

With clever setup of your three FM3 buttons, you could do what I do on my AxeFX3 for one or two of my templates, which is to set up the amp with a couple channel toggle switches:

• one set up to toggle between channel A and B
• the other set up to toggle between C and B
• both with B as the 'secondary' (i.e., dim LED) channel

This would give you easy, one-stomp access to three Amp block channels on those two switches, and boost on/off on the other switch, all with easy visual indication of status via the LEDs around the switch buttons.

Thinking about it, I could just use the FM3 to replace my head/loadbox/IR and call it a day, leaving my existing FX rack units in place. Avoid all the MIDI stuff completely.

With three buttons using tap and hold, I think I could get to as many amp settings as I need. Once I get that all dialed in I could come back later and put the Axe-FX in to replace the FX and mixer.

 

[mwd]

I'm not sure you're getting what I'm trying to do.

Ok I see your dilemma. Yes scene would go to default saved state in the preset so jumping scenes would inevitably cause a glitch. I used a Big Sky for my Ultra and turned off all verbs in the presets to independently run verbs outside of the presets. It was heavenly.