Stupid MIDI question

FullThrottle64

Inspired
PC Mapping appear to be able to select a preset/scene combination.

Is it possible to use MIDI PC commands to also select a channel for a given block, or can this only be done with CCs? If only with CCs, how do I assign a CC# to a given block? Are those assigned CC#s global, or do they change per preset?

I've read through the MIDI portions of the manual, and some of it has become clearer, but.....?

[The reason I ask is that I am wondering whether I could use my existing MIDI board to control an Axe-FX III, or whether I need to budget for a FC-12 or other controller in the initial purchase.]
 
I'm thinking typically the chain would be scenes control your channels and MIDI can control your scenes.
Right.

What I am imagining is a basic set of four amps, say SuperReverb, Plexi, Bogner XTC Blue, Bogner XTC Red. This would be my basic 4 gain settings and would be copied across 90 of my scenes.

Each scene would then be a specific group of FX presets - just like a patch in a legacy rack FX unit in the FX loop of an amp. So my sounds are then set up like a grid, with the FX being controlled by scene and the amp/gain being controlled by the amp block channel. 8 scenes of FX patches with 4 amp models gives me 32 combinations all within a given preset.

Sounds like the FC-12 is the right approach, since MIDI won't let me select the channel.
 
I'm really going to hawk the FC here. In comparison to traditional MIDI, it's incredible what you can do with the dedicated controller. It's more flexible, more capable, and much much easier.
Sure - that much is clear. I was just trying to determine if my existing MIDI board would get me by for an initial implementation.

Long-term, the tap/hold approach of the FC-12 absolutely will get me to what I want - it's just a significant expense that would be nice to defer.
 
Both ways work.

There are global settings for each block. You assign the cc number to a block there and it's done. Each instance of a block like PEQ 1,2,3,4 can have it's own number, so you can still choose if your block should react on the cc or not by choosing different instances.

The other way is to assign the cc number to an external controller #1-#16. In a block in the grid you can put a modifier on the bypass status and choose an external controller as source. That way it isn't global and your cc can control whatever blocks.
 
OP, remember that switching scenes can select channel as well as bypass state of all the blocks, so selecting a scene can get you an amp change at the same time, maybe not organized in quite the way you are envisaging now.

However, as others have said, FC-12 is the key that unlocks Axe FX switching capabilities. Ludicrously flexible, really intuitive to set up pretty much any way I can conceive.

Liam
 
OP, remember that switching scenes can select channel as well as bypass state of all the blocks, so selecting a scene can get you an amp change at the same time,
You say that it CAN select channel for all blocks, but MUST it select channel for all blocks?

My real intent is to select the amp block channel independently of all of the FX settings. This is the way a "real" amp works, right? I have several amp channels that I can select, and a whole bunch of FX patches that I can select - but changing the amp channel does not change the FX patch, and vice versa.

Let me ask this another way. With the FC-12, how would I configure a set of buttons to change scenes without changing the amp channel? I think I can figure out how to change amp channel without changing scenes, but I want to make sure that I can maintain that setting through a scene change.

I'm fairly certain that I could do this with one of the high-end MIDI controllers by reading the amp channel state, changing scene and then confirming the amp channel, but that would seem to open the door to an audible "blip" of the default amp channel for that scene.
 
You say that it CAN select channel for all blocks, but MUST it select channel for all blocks?

My real intent is to select the amp block channel independently of all of the FX settings. This is the way a "real" amp works, right? I have several amp channels that I can select, and a whole bunch of FX patches that I can select - but changing the amp channel does not change the FX patch, and vice versa.

Let me ask this another way. With the FC-12, how would I configure a set of buttons to change scenes without changing the amp channel? I think I can figure out how to change amp channel without changing scenes, but I want to make sure that I can maintain that setting through a scene change.

I'm fairly certain that I could do this with one of the high-end MIDI controllers by reading the amp channel state, changing scene and then confirming the amp channel, but that would seem to open the door to an audible "blip" of the default amp channel for that scene.
If you want to use the same amp channel in more than one scene, you can. Say you have a preset wit scenes for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, amd Solo. You can have your perfect Fender clean for all but the Solo, and switch amp block channels to your Mesa MkIV for the solo. Works the same way for all blocks. A scene mostly remembers on/off state and channel selection for the blocks in your preset. There are a few other things it can do, too, but those are the meat and potatoes of it.

You can set up a channel switch to change amp channel while in the same scene, but be aware that its initial state is stored in the scene.
 
If you want to use the same amp channel in more than one scene, you can. Say you have a preset wit scenes for Intro, Verse, Chorus, Bridge, amd Solo. You can have your perfect Fender clean for all but the Solo, and switch amp block channels to your Mesa MkIV for the solo. Works the same way for all blocks. A scene mostly remembers on/off state and channel selection for the blocks in your preset. There are a few other things it can do, too, but those are the meat and potatoes of it.

You can set up a channel switch to change amp channel while in the same scene, but be aware that its initial state is stored in the scene.
I know all of this, but it's still assuming that the amp channel MUST change when I go to a new scene - and that is not what I want it to do.

If I had to program each patch for each song individually, I could never get it all done. I play a lot of one-off concerts and short-run theater gigs where I have to get to a wide range of sounds, and often don't have the time to set up custom programs for each show. I might be able to pull this off for my primary band's list, but not for the other two groups that I sit in with occasionally. Thus, I have a library of stock FX patches that can mix and match with various amp settings to get what I need on the fly.

I view my sounds as a grid, with the amp channel as on dimension and the FX patches as the other. My amp has 6 gain levels accessible via footswitch. With a separate MIDI switch, I can select FX patches in groups of 10. The amp gain and FX are completely distinct, so I have instant access to 60 different possibilities, 180 if I go up or down one bank on the FX board. Forcing the amp channel to be part of the FX patch (scene) is extremely limiting in comparison - it means that I only have 8 real possibilities, and I can't change FX while leaving the amp where it is.

Now, if I could select the amp block channel separately and lock it down from scene changes, I would have a 4x8 grid of options. That's still not as flexible as 6x10, but I could make it work.

A "perfect" setup for me would be a FC-6 that could select amp block and channel, and a FC-12 that selected all of the FX, and NOT the amp block and channel. Can that be done?

FWIW, I tried one of the other high-end digital rigs for a run of shows, and this lack of flexibility was why I elected to stick with my Bogner.
 
Not possible to select Channel via PC.

See page 75 here for how to assign the CCs:

https://www.fractalaudio.com/downloads/manuals/axe-fx-3/Axe-Fx-III-Owners-Manual.pdf#page162

CC assignments are Global.
OK, got it - and page 46 shows that I could tie a controller value to the amp channel.

SO - if I tied two on-off switches to that control value (giving 0-3 in binary) and made the amp block global, would it then maintain the amp block channel state as scenes are changed? If so, I think I've got a clear path forward with either MIDI or FC-12.
 
OK, got it - and page 46 shows that I could tie a controller value to the amp channel.

SO - if I tied two on-off switches to that control value (giving 0-3 in binary) and made the amp block global, would it then maintain the amp block channel state as scenes are changed? If so, I think I've got a clear path forward with either MIDI or FC-12.
No, a global block link doesn't do anything to stop scenes from switching block channels. Also there's no way to tell the Axe-FX you want the combined state of two switches to determine a block's channel.

The FC6/12 can't really do what you're looking for here. Your effect "scenes" would need to be selected via multiple CCs sent by a MIDI controller (or software acting as a middleman) instead of actually switching scenes on the Axe-FX.
 
No, a global block link doesn't do anything to stop scenes from switching block channels. Also there's no way to tell the Axe-FX you want the combined state of two switches to determine a block's channel.
Hmmm... OK, so you can't set up the switch inputs to act as a virtual controller? That seems like an odd limitation, but OK.
The FC6/12 can't really do what you're looking for here. Your effect "scenes" would need to be selected via multiple CCs sent by a MIDI controller (or software acting as a middleman) instead of actually switching scenes on the Axe-FX.
That's really ugly.

Why can't a product as thoroughly featured as Axe-FX not do something this simple?
 
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