Stupid FC-6/FC-12 question...

[hippietim]

For folks that have some very specialized workflows and/or controller usage, maybe you should articulate how you use your existing foot controller, what you like about it, what you don't like about it,what you would ideally like, etc.

IOW, don't just say "I need 25 buttons". Explain what you want to accomplish. And it would help to consider the capabilities of the AxeIII as you do this. For instance, if you used to have to switch presets to pull off what you wanted, think about how you might do it with more CPU power (aka, more blocks), more drives, more delays, ABCD channels for almost everything, etc. So while you may have needed 25 buttons before, with 12 separate pedalboard layouts available (some global/some per preset), perhaps you can get away with the FC6.

 

[chris]

i think a lot of people like comfort in seeing a button for every block in their preset. it's understandable, especially coming from real pedals where every pedal is in front of you. they're already giving up the ease of adjusting each pedal in front of them (while gaining much more), so it may be comforting to at least see the options they designed in the preset.

 

[NeoSound]

I'm hoping to have one button designated to bring up a preset selection page (or click a pair - even better), then each selected preset can have use of all twelve switches. With short press or long press options like the AX8 and momentary functions would be very powerful. Click another pair for additional page selection like looper etc...

 

[Stringer76]

I'm hoping you can assign layouts to scenes. So I select scene 2 and boom my layout changes to what makes sense to turn off/on for that scene without needing to go to a different page. If that's the case then I can really start to see how an FC6 might be enough. Speculation at this point, but it would be a powerful feature.

 

[Fro]

For folks that have some very specialized workflows and/or controller usage, maybe you should articulate how you use your existing foot controller, what you like about it, what you don't like about it,what you would ideally like, etc.

I’m on the waiting list for the FC, and I’m going to give it a solid effort to make it work. I’m looking forward to it. However, I had issues making it work with the AX8, and I decided not to use the AX8 as a main rig because of it. One problem was not remembering what each scene was, and the scribble strips will help with that. But the combinations of pedals were too many, and having all of the IA’s accessible was the best option.

An example would be my Fender patch. I have.

1. No pedals
2. Boost
3. Drive 1
4. Drive 1 and Boost
5. Drive 2
6. Drive 2 and Boost
7. Delay 1
8. Delay 1 and Boost
9. Delay 1, Drive 1
10. Delay 1, Drive 1 and Boost
11. Delay 2
12. Delay 2 and Boost
13. Delay 1 and Phase
14. Delay 1, Phase and Boost

I can handle this with 6 IA switches. I don’t know how I can handle this with 6 or less Scene switches. That’s just one example. I’m keeping my MFC-101. It’s working great with the III right now, and I have no problem continuing to use it if the FC doesn’t work. But I really am open to changing my thinking and workflow if it makes things more efficient, and with less realestate.

 

[rllw]

In addition to existing Scene MIDI, FC footswitches will be able to cause the Axe-Fx III to transmit external MIDI. The plan is to integrate this with CONTROL SWITCHES, (which you may know from the AX8 and FX8). In addition to serving as modifier sources, control switches will also have the ability to transmit a MIDI payload. Please don't ask loads of questions about the full set of features as I am not at liberty to discuss. Suffice it to say that if you want to control an external MIDI device or devices downstream from the Axe-Fx III, you'll have what I would call some great options.

This is great info, and I will restrain for asking additonal questions. Watched a few videos on control switches (as I hadn't heard of them being an XL+ guy in the past) and are looking forward to the evolution of the products.

 

[hippietim]

I’m on the waiting list for the FC, and I’m going to give it a solid effort to make it work. I’m looking forward to it. However, I had issues making it work with the AX8, and I decided not to use the AX8 as a main rig because of it. One problem was not remembering what each scene was, and the scribble strips will help with that. But the combinations of pedals were too many, and having all of the IA’s accessible was the best option.

An example would be my Fender patch. I have.

1. No pedals
2. Boost
3. Drive 1
4. Drive 1 and Boost
5. Drive 2
6. Drive 2 and Boost
7. Delay 1
8. Delay 1 and Boost
9. Delay 1, Drive 1
10. Delay 1, Drive 1 and Boost
11. Delay 2
12. Delay 2 and Boost
13. Delay 1 and Phase
14. Delay 1, Phase and Boost

I can handle this with 6 IA switches. I don’t know how I can handle this with 6 or less Scene switches. That’s just one example. I’m keeping my MFC-101. It’s working great with the III right now, and I have no problem continuing to use it if the FC doesn’t work. But I really am open to changing my thinking and workflow if it makes things more efficient, and with less realestate.

Obviously if you have to go from any one of those states to another in a single press, then scenes won't even work since there are just 8. How many of those states do you absolutely have to switch to from any other state? That's what I would configure as scenes. Then the rest can be enabled via IA switches.

One thing to keep in mind, the press and hold actions don't have to be X/Y changes. So with the FC-6, you've got the ability to have IA switches for Boost, Drive 1, Drive 2, Delay 1, Delay 2, and Phaser with normal press and then you could assign press and hold to be Scene 1-6.

Personally, I currently gig with the AX8 and I rarely use scenes live (but I love having them when I want them). So I probably tap dance more than I have to once in a while - I just kind of like having simple patches most of the time and treat the AX8 footswitches like a pedalboard. None of my patches use up all 8 IA switches on the AX8 - I really don't use a lot of effects at once. So in transitioning my current live usage to the AxeIII, I think using the FC6 for IAs is probably all I'm going to really need. I am trying to think more creatively about using this much more flexible layout mechanism though.

 

[Fro]

Obviously if you have to go from any one of those states to another in a single press, then scenes won't even work since there are just 8. How many of those states do you absolutely have to switch to from any other state? That's what I would configure as scenes. Then the rest can be enabled via IA switches.

That's what I need to sit down and map out. So much of it is muscle memory right now. One song may have Delay 2 on all the time, and then I switch the boost on and off. Another might start with Delay 1 on, and then I need Drive 2 and Boost. In some instances, I switch to another patch/amp and come back. I did map the whole thing out with scenes once, more so with the AX8. Then when I started playing through the set, I realized I missed one combination of effects, and I had no place left to put it, and I didn't have access to the IAs, so I started all over. I'm sure the layers will help. I have some ideas. The options and scenarios will be more apparent to me when the unit is in hand, and as more things are developed and implemented.

It is a bit of a leap of faith, but I'm going for it. It will take work though, maybe as much as programming the Axe Fx III. At least in that case I had a roadmap to follow with the Axe Fx II sitting in front of me. In some respects, I'm starting from scratch with a smaller/different controller. I can completely understand why some people are concerned about it. But I also get it that it's too soon for all of the answers.

 

[iaresee]

How did you come to that conclusion for you personally? I wanna buy once, and have it be the right choice!

Once things stabilize I’ll do a big post on how I worked out making it work for me. There’s so much power here it’s overwhelming. Coming from an AX8 and an XL+/MFC setup this merges what I love about the switching and selection on both those platforms.

It’s all changing fast right now but hold tight. Myself and the other usual suspects will have more for before and that waitlist starts getting serviced I suspect.

 

[iaresee]

Chis, I do understand this. It is not about functions as much as having the 21 button layout. I just ask if there is anything on the horizon like this. If not, just say no. You have never been disrespectful, and I thank you for that. I am on the waiting list for the FC 12 and will have to toe dance some. Like I said, I have 4 presets and that works all night long. I have as many effects as I can load to keep it all 4 presets. Most I think does per song or over a bunch of presets. We all each have our way of doing things.

You can perform TWENTY FOUR UNIQUE ACTIONS with a single press on the FC-12. That’s three more than your 21 button MFC unit, eh.

 

[yeky83]

You can perform TWENTY FOUR UNIQUE ACTIONS with a single press on the FC-12. That’s three more than your 21 button MFC unit, eh.

That's not his complaint though, he wants 21 individually accessible buttons. That's different than having one button that can do 24 things.

 

[iaresee]

That's not his complaint though, he wants 21 individually accessible buttons. That's different than having one button that can do 24 things.

He says a lot of things, many of them contradictory. Mostly he railed about "dancing" -- there's no dancing if you need 1-press access to 24 things and all you have is an FC-12.

 

[yeky83]

He says a lot of things, many of them contradictory. Mostly he railed about "dancing" -- there's no dancing if you need 1-press access to 24 things and all you have is an FC-12.

I don't remember whether he's been contradictory or not.
But I don't think you're hearing him right if you think a 1-press access to 24 things solves his complaint about wanting a 21 switch layout with 8 scenes, 4 presets, etc...

Anyway, not a big deal. He can get 12+12 if he really needs at least 21 switches, it'll just cost more is all.

 

[NaturalScience]

For folks that have some very specialized workflows and/or controller usage, maybe you should articulate how you use your existing foot controller, what you like about it, what you don't like about it,what you would ideally like, etc.

I'm pretty sure the FC12 will work for me, but I'll bite because I see a lot of potential:

I use an MFC 101 with all of the switch/pedal jacks occupied. My workflow isn't very specialized, per se - I like to use one preset to do as much as possible, with about 5-6 scenes doing most of the work. From a control standpoint, I think instant, non-sequential access to 5-6 presets is mutually exclusive of the same instant access to scenes, simply because it ties up double the switches. So I'm all in with scenes.

I don't use scenes to instantly switch to every sound I might use in a gig or song though. The idea isn't for a single button press to do a million things, but to have the freedom for each scene to behave as a mini rig where I can branch off and use whatever effects I want. So for a given part of a song, I may know that I need to switch to my clean setting, but also turn on chorus once I get there. A lot like what Fro is describing above - and it's a ton of muscle memory, but it works for me. I used to play Dark Side of the Moon and about half of The Wall with just 2 presets (and lots of controller/modifier usage). Maybe I'm a glutton for punishment, but I don't want to curate a million presets.

There are certain effects I may not bother using for certain scenes - I'll probably never use rotary on my lead tone, or an octave effect on my acoustic patch, etc. So in this regard, I think the reduction in number of switches can work out as long as the layouts are user friendly. Off the top of my head, what I would ideally like is:

• The ability to switch layouts with scenes (or have a layout load a default scene, which would serve the same purpose)
• An option to return to the previous layout as soon as a switch is pressed on the current layout
• An option to reload a scene if you switch to it while it's already loaded (sort of like the ignore redundant PC option for presets)
• The ability to set up a looper layout with scene switches on the same layout (I assume this is already possible)
• If the total number of layouts is limited, it might be cool to be able to designate an effect as a wildcard on a per preset basis. Then you'd have a corresponding wildcard which could be used in the layout. This would be cool for one-off effects that might be unique to each preset.

Anyway, food for thought - I'm excited to see what the full feature set will be at launch.

 

[josephyballew]

I think most want midi out of the controller to operate other devices with program change and CC messages for fine tuning some things. I am not using any myself, because the AXE 3 is all I need. I do use a talk box externally, but that is not midi. Some want small controllers with tons of functions and some don't care about super functions and just want 21 switch. I don't want to toe dance. As long as the controller has the function to display the tuner, bank up and down, display scenes, display stomps, then I am good but 21 switches keeps you from doing a toe tap. I like control with the least amount of presets, and memorization. I choose to use fewer amps, but all the effects I can get in a preset and only have 4 presets. With this layout, only one button push changes what you need. We don't have techs changing all our presets like the big guys do. The least amount of effort to get the greatest result with only one unit, should be considered down the road. Not at $1400 though.

 

[brianv4]

The new FC's seems like they will provide a new simplified workflow. So much so that from what I've learned thus far, (at least for me), I may be able to get away with an FC6 which would be great. Less to worry about during a live performance. Adapt, evolve. Constructive conversation regarding setups/functions will help in developing useful features but all this whining is tiresome. Try to have an open mind and wait to see what they can or can't do before singing the blues.

 

[josephyballew]

The new FC's seems like they will provide a new simplified workflow. So much so that from what I've learned thus far, I may be able to get away with an FC6 (which would be great). Less to worry about during a live performance. Adapt, evolve. Constructive conversation regarding setups/functions will help in developing useful features but all this whining is tiresome. Try to have an open mind and wait to see what they can or can't do before singing the blues.

Different people have their wants and needs. It is not whinning, it is communicating. Your statement was good for you and I respect that until you got to the whinning part. The forum needs to stick to being respectful to others. You can disagree while being respectful. I have seen disrespect on the side of people that have wants also. Look, we have the best processor and the forum is here for each of us to help each other. We need to be a family and show some respect to all here.

 

[bradlake]

Please let Eric Johnson know about his lack of professionalism

I’ve seen him pretty damn loose with his setup..sometimes with semi dire consequences....
PArt of his eccentric charm.

 

[brianv4]

Different people have their wants and needs. It is not whinning, it is communicating. Your statement was good for you and I respect that until you got to the whinning part. The forum needs to stick to being respectful to others. You can disagree while being respectful. I have seen disrespect on the side of people that have wants also. Look, we have the best processor and the forum is here for each of us to help each other. We need to be a family and show some respect to all here.

no disrespect if you're offering constructive conversation. but there are some here that only want to complain and it's tiresome. let's see exactly what the feature set will be. then you can decide if it's for you or not.

 

[unix-guy]

I think most want midi out of the controller to operate other devices with program change and CC messages for fine tuning some things

I think that is a bit of an assumption. I've seen very few people on this forum ever talk about needing to independently control external devices via the MFC or FCs. I would bet the vast majority have no need.

I'm not discounting that it is a useful ability and there are definitely some that need it... But not "most"...

The majority of users that do use it for controlling external devices want the ability for that controlling to be done on scene or preset changes (based on my experiences here) and the FC + midi block does exactly that.