Studio Monitor Issue

luke said:
200hz is G3, your low E string on guitar is 82hz @ E2. By raising your low cut to 200hz you are effecting a 15 semitone region.

Here is visual if it makes it easier:


GuitarFrequencies.png
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This is an important point that I think people forget when they just put in a low cut. I am not so worried about a low cut at 80hz or below since you get a lot of the fundamental of the low E at 82 but a cut above that really affects the low E IMHO. That's why I rather attenuate in that area than just cut it off.
 
There are no theoretic issues to worry about, as long as you can trust your ears 8) Ears win all the time, and flawed theory might confuse. The bottom end gets much exaggerated in close miced situations. This may be what you want, and it may not...Anyway, the fundametal of the low notes (when close miced) is louder than what is "natural" for the instrument. That said, you may not even need that fundamental at all as the overtones describe it very well. Hi pass/lo cut doesn't completely chop off everything below selected frequency...it's a certain amount of dB per octave. If it's 6dB/oct and you set that hi-pass to 200Hz you'll be some 6dB down at 100Hz and 12dB down at 50Hz.

But back on topic...OP needs to twist his sounds relative to "everything else", since everything else sounds good. Still no clues as to whether "everything else" sounds good in the cans...
 
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rather than a low 'cut' I'd go for a low 'shelf'
I tend to cut below 40Hz to 50Hz to kill off low end dross, rumble and sub-harmonics...
but if the lower 'notes' themselves are strong or lack definition I'd prefer to use a gentle shelf to lessen / tighten them a little and then head up to the higher 2.5K to 5K area and give a little boost to sharpen the definition...
and if you still want your bass to sound 'deep' I'd make another little cut with a bell eq where Q=1.0 to Q=2.0, centre it somewhere between 400Hz and 600Hz and scoop out these low mids by something like 5dB to 10dB.
With EQ you have to be mindful that it's relative... essentially a boost in one area may sound like a cut in another..
and it's also relative in where you reside within the mix's entire frequency spectrum..
so shelving the low end a little may sound a little thinner when you play in isolation..
but when the bass is playing too your combined tone will sound as if you still have a plenty of low end..

it's essential to realise the difference between tones that 'sound' great, and tones that 'mix' or 'blend' great [both live and studio]...
 
Trazan said:
But back on topic...OP needs to twist his sounds relative to "everything else", since everything else sounds good. Still no clues as to whether "everything else" sounds good in the cans...
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I'm thinking this too.....
 
+1

The thread has drifted into Mixing 101 :)

Lots of good info on the net about low frequencies and why mere mortals will never mix them correctly :)

But back to the OP, if pre-recorded tracks from CD's sound good but the AxeFx don't, I would still get a preset that you don't care for and change only the Amp Block low cut to see if it gets bettter.

Richard
 
@Trazan Sound is relatively equal in quality and tone with headphones to the studio monitors on other things such as ITunes music, YouTube videos, etc.

@clarky I have 1 user made preset to my name currently and mainly stick with fiddling with factory presets. Same dynamics And sound shifts from both.
 
The Raven said:
I'm under a bit of pressure because my friends in one of the bands I'm in expect me to make grade A quality recordings and i just started getting equipment this christmas. I'll try bringing the axe down to GC and see if i can try out different studio monitors with it and shop around a little bit, but just as a clarification, I'm not a recording engineer with enough cash to spend all willy nilly on monitors. I'm a guitarist getting ready to go of to college who wants to get some kick ass tone and try my hand in the recording world and try to make some money some day recording others. As such, i have a budget and its VERY LOW. Take that for whats it is, but id be grateful if posts along the lines "pft then your not going to get a good sound" or anything of the like could be avoided.
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Mixing and mastering is a science. It's not something that you can quickly become good at (and make "Grade A quality recordings") because you picked up a set of studio monitors and an expensive preamp. Plenty of guys out there have mountains of gear and end up with awful sounding recordings. It takes a lot of time, and a lot of work to become good at. I mean absolutely no disrespect when I say this - if you just started getting equipment three months ago, it will be a while before your recordings start sounding good. Trial and error works about 1% of the time in terms of mixing, because the slightest over/undercorrection or tweak of the wrong knob can ruin an entire production.
 
The Raven said:
@Trazan Sound is relatively equal in quality and tone with headphones to the studio monitors on other things such as ITunes music, YouTube videos, etc.

@clarky I have 1 user made preset to my name currently and mainly stick with fiddling with factory presets. Same dynamics And sound shifts from both.
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what is your complete signal path from the Axe to the monitors?
and is there anything that can alter the EQ in between?
is the global EQ in the Axe2 flat?

example:

Axe2 -> mixer [which has eq] -> monitors

Axe2-> AI [which has EQ via a software mixer] -> monitors

Axe2 -> DAW via USB [which will have EQ] -> AI -> monitors

I'm wondering if there is some EQ related thing with unexpected settings somewhere?
also, some inputs on some AI's / mixers have settings [usually little buttons] to enable you to input a variety of sources [guitars, mics, line level outboard like FX and synths etc].. these buttons are for impedance matching and can have detrimental impacts on the signal if set incorrectly.. if you have this sort of thing it'll be worth checking that it's set to 'line' [it's worth checking even if you've already set it correctly just in case you've changed it accidentally]...
 
@Clarky You're probably going to laugh but:

Axe2->DAW via USB->Monitors via usb as they are made to plug into usb for convenience

if i where to get and audio interface like Apogee duet pr something of the like and connect the speakers to the computer through that, would EQ'ing be a bit easier to try and emulate a the sound i want to be hearing?
 
@Raven
Sorry if I miised it but what type of music (presets\amps) to you like and try? I think that's important also. Many here will say the presets suck-just as many will say they don't. Some are very nice. I have fooled and tweaked many of them.
Perhaps if you answer this question I can help with that part.
BTW-I have Mackie HR624 MKII's, not the best but very OK. I am looking for am upgrade though. But I have these old M-Audio Studiophile DX4's. And I can get the axeII to sound fine thru those mostly rock and blues. And they are not near as good as the Alseis you have (the DX4's I mean) You definitely should be able to get an OK sound. The room, is important as many have mentioned. But, you still shouldn't get the results you are posting.
 
The Raven said:
@Clarky You're probably going to laugh but:

Axe2->DAW via USB->Monitors via usb as they are made to plug into usb for convenience

if i where to get and audio interface like Apogee duet pr something of the like and connect the speakers to the computer through that, would EQ'ing be a bit easier to try and emulate a the sound i want to be hearing?
Click to expand...

so...
all your recorded music sounds great through the monitors
the axe sounds bad
the axe and recorded music sound great through the cans

can you try your axe through someone else's studio / monitors - just to see if the sound moves with the axe or not?
 
@Clarky I sent a file a while ago of one of my patches to a friend to see how well it translated through his built in comp speakers, his stereo system and his external comp speakers, and all sounded like they matched the headphone sounds i dialed in fairly well. When i play through a real amp cab, i don't have the same effect. I will try on other monitor's though. I don't know anyone else with studio monitor's but i can try it on other comp speakers and such.

@Stratman68 I dabble in a little bit of everything. The main genres i play are Metalcore, Hard rock, Classic Rock, Blues, Post-Hardcore, and Alternative.
 
The Raven said:
all sounded like they matched the headphone sounds i dialed in fairly well. When i play through a real amp cab, i don't have the same effect
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hmmmmm.... I've got a feeling that this is pretty normal.....

I have several multi-fx units and I've never been able you dial-in tones on cans..
in fact, I've never got a great mix with cans either..

I can get reasonably close.. like 70% to 80% there but the EQ is never right with mixing or tone creation..

cans are always much brighter so you tend to eq on the dark side
the lack of top will have the side-effect of killing definition so you will perceive your tone as being 'woolly' or muffled

I have two copies of my presets
in my 2120, presets 1 -10 are 'live', 11 - 20 are studio [for practice / writing using cans]
in my VG-99, presets 1 - 5 are studio, 6 - 10 live and 11 - 15 are experimental

the 'studio' presets have more of everything... stronger bass and top, more gain, stronger ambient fx settings...
the 'live' presets have been tamed... the extreme highs and lows have been cut, the mids less scooped, the reverbs and delays are I'd approximate to be around 20% to 30% dryer [because live volumes alone will bring them out]... the gain [for my riffing tone mainly] is a little less [which allows me to relax the gating a little too]..

in the studio [through cans] my live presets sound rather dull and unexciting..
through my Marshall backline they sound like they'll start wars... and finish 'em...

for the sake of practice, the preset layouts of the two banks are the same...
so for example [in the VG]:
1 = Riff / Solo 1
2 = Riff / Solo 2
etc
6 = Riff / Solo 1 - L1
7 = Riff / Solo 2 - L1
where the L1 suffix = live preset from series 1 - so if I come up with a new improved set of live presets they'll become L2 [making things easy to find should I feel the need to revert back to a 'known good' set of presets I have archived]..
the controllers assigned to the live, studio and experimental presets are identical..
this means that I have a consistent playing experience..
so for example... I'm given my tour schedule and the set list... the set list is created in iTunes.. I'll start practising the set daily a few months before the tour using the studio bank of presets... the band will then meet up and have a rehearsal so from then on I'll switch to the live bank and and use that for the rehearsal and the tour..
from the performance standpoint, 'where' everything is and 'what' it does [presets, controller switches and exp pedals] is the same so my practise translates perfectly to the live situation...

my tip for you therefore would be:
for cans use:
- if you intend to create your own presets, create them on the cans, copy them to another bank and then re-work the copies so that they sound and behave correctly through your backline / monitoring
- if you want to mostly use the factory presets, maybe create some sort of EQ config [either in the Axe's global EQ or a saved EQ config in your DAW that you can retrieve]..
personally, I'd try to do all that in the Axe...
in the VG-99 I have two global EQ configs. Funnily enough, one is called 'live' and the other is called 'studio'..
erm... than there are no prizes for guessing which of the two will be flatter and hotter, and which is more scooped and has quite a bit less level....
for live use:
hire a rehearsal studio
take your backline, an iPOD / discman etc and the right cables so you can jack it into the mixing desk
fine tune your 'live' preset bank at gig volume first in isolation, and then again playing along with the band's set list that's in the iPOD...

Note: if you don't have access to the original recordings and therefore can't run off a mix without your guitar parts, you'll need to be mindful of the fact that you are playing along with music that already contains guitars.. you are therefore in effect 'tracking' with the original recorded guitar.. the result of these two guitar parts [you and the recorded one] may sound a little more 'exciting' and so you can make EQ / FX decisions in the slightly 'over-tamed' direction... this being the case:
- tame the tone to where you think it should be and then add just a little [in the slightly less tamed direction]
- don't be surprised if when rehearsing with the band you'll need to make a few more minor alterations
that said, you'll be much better dialled in having done all the hard work on your own first rather than going straight from your home practise situation to a full band rehearsal...
 
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