Studio Monitor Issue

The Raven

Inspired
Well I feel immature and childish for complaining about this but maybe someone could help me out. I recently bought myself a pair of Alesis M1Active 520USB powered studio monitors. Let me start by saying for listening to music these things sound pretty freaking spectacular and, as an added bonus, I got em for $180 including tax and shipping from guitar center. I've had them for quite some time now, so I'm pretty sure I'm void of Guitar Center's return policy, so i gotta ask a question to all the forum goers on here. Upon receiving these monitors i played my Axe Fx through em via Logic 9 on my Macbook Pro and stopped playing through head phones. As time has passed and I've gotten the "honeymoon phase" with these speakers, i started to notice how these speakers change the sound of my Axe, and not for the better. I plugged in headphones just now to do a test and the difference is substantial. When I have the sound come out of the speakers, it sounds similar to when a thick blanket is put over an amplifier. Playing with headphones plugged into the computer sounds fantastic to my ear and this really kinda pisses me off since the whole reason i bought these was so i could eliminate the use of headphones to avoid headaches. Can any body give some pointers that might be able to help? I'm open to recommendations for better studio monitors if you guys think those are the issue, but like i said, they sound absolutely amazing when used to listen to music. Also the headphones I'm using are Monster Beats Studio Headphones, if that helps. Apologies for this cluster f%$@ paragraph post; I'm far too tired and peeved to space things out differently:|
 
I am confused on exactly what you said... the monitors and the headphones into your DAW sound fine, but plugged straight into the Axe-FX sounds crappy?
 
Headphones>Axe FxII=Awesome and no blanket effect
Axe>Computer with Headphones=Awesome with no blanket effect
Axe>Computer with Monitors=Crappy Blanket sound
Axe>Monitors=Worse Crappy Blanket sound

That somewhat simplifies it :lol
 
Both are high volume consumer grade electronics likely with hyped bass and treble.

If you bought a Ferrari would you get discount tires at Costco for it?

Good headphones start at $600. A pair of good studio monitors is $3,000+.

Your sound source is the last piece of the audio chain, to have it be the weakest defies logic.

I'm not suggesting you splurge for Barefoot MM27s, but @ $90 a speaker you got what you paid for.
 
Well unfortunately, $3,000 for speakers and $600 for headphones just seems absolutely absurd and unnecessary. I'm just a poor guy trying to get his bearing in the world of recording and production, but that doesn't mean i wanna sacrifice having awesome guitar tone coming from my reference source, which is why i got the Axe in the first place.

Heres and additional question: Which is giving me a more accurate sound? I personally believe its the headphones, as i have listen to recorded files from other sources and the results were similar with the headphones.
 
Well unfortunately, $3,000 for speakers and $600 for headphones just seems absolutely absurd and unnecessary.

Unfortunately people assume that by laying out $2,200 that is the end of the expenditures when in reality it is the only the beginning.

If you bought a new Bogner head you'd spend $2,200 on it, at least. Then you'd have to get a speaker cabinet, their 4x12 is $1,100.

The Axe Fx II is bargain. We use to spend more on a single delay unit housed in racks that were worth $50,000+.

By being so cheap, the Axe Fx attracts customers that stretch to get the unit but fail to see the larger cost picture.

Regarding a new purchase, good headphones will be cheaper than good monitors.

Atomic is coming out with new monitors soon, or there are the RCFs, but they are still $1,000+ each and you need two to be in stereo.

The best cheap alternative, IMO, is the Event 20/20 BAS monitors that came out in the 1990s. A used pair can be had for $250 today, originally they were $1,500.
 
Last edited by a moderator:
This is a common issue across the board.. seen it many times on the Live Audio board.
It's the "buy once, cry once" syndrome. You bought - what you consider to be - an expensive piece of equipment. However, more is need to fully experience that device.
However, many (like Luke) who do/have or do work in "pro audio" often have vastly inflated expectations (no offence intended BTW luke) and considerations of what "adequate" and "budget" means to the person who may have *stretched* to buy the device in the first place. On the pro audio boards, the "base" PA/FOH system that was being touted started at $18,000. That was put together by members who run live audio for a living. I've got about $30k invested in my PA, but it doesn't include some of the things on that list that were considered essentials.

While I agree that $5,000 near-fields are probably better sounding than the Alesis M1's, one really needs to factor in budget. Teh sky is NOT the limit for most of us. I happen to own a set of Event 20/20's and [also] TR8N's and think they are great (got a good deal on them both BTW). Would I like top-of-the-line Adams, Genelec, an original NS10 set, Focals or Blue Sky? Sure, but many are outside my budget, so I must temper my G.A.S. with reality. YMMV
 
I personally really don`t think that you need expensive studio monitors nor headphones to get good sounds.............It is more important that YOU know YOUR gear...in this case the Axe & monitors..........I prefer to program not through headphones....
When your PC sound system has a subwoofer , even better because you will hear very nicely how far to adjust the Lowcut...see below

I get the best results when I program my sounds on the cheapest PC speakers for example Logitech or whatever , playing along with good quality Backing Tracks. When my guitars sits nicely in the mix , I am done.......and this translates very well through the FOH...

My basic presets are so simple with the Axe 2 :
- Find 1 great IR , for example the Uber RW
- Take almost any amp you like , adjust the LOWCUT in both AMP & CAB to minimum 100hz ( some amps need more ) , MASTER on 10 for some body :) , and be careful with the GAIN

And you should be more than enough good to go and have a great time , put a Tape delay in for solo and there you have it....

Anyhow, I am quite easy when it comes to programming , it works for ME perfect without owning any expensive studio monitors ( i have the cheap KRK6 ) , On stage I use whatever the soundguys bring......can be a simple peavey combo till 12` floor monitors.....BUT I know that the audience will have great guitar sound :)

Good luck,
A+
 
I must have crappy ears because I just love the sounds I get from my measly Adam A7's that cost me 1k for the pair. Go figure.

Putting it into perspective, you spent 5.5x more on your monitors than the OP.

There is a law of diminishing returns in audio, but it doesn't kick in until most would use the term ludicrous.
 
Speakers and/or headphones are so subjective. You can argue this set or that set is more flat. You can argue that the lows, mids, or highs are this or that between them. You can capture and graph the output in various environments. But when it is all said and done, it comes down to what sounds good to you. I like the way my Adams sound in my room. My friend prefers his Focals. I have many pairs of headphones ranging from $20 to $1200. My (at the time) top of the line Grado GS1000i's are adored by many and hated by just as many. For me, they sound awesome for the music I like to listen to through them and I tried many at the time I bought them. For playing guitar I don't like them so much and prefer the flatter Senn HD650's. I have also heard a few brands that sound very close to those at half their cost.

So what I am saying here, and it's just my humble opinion, is that judging by price isn't always the best way to go. You obviously have to consider your budget and try all the possibilities within that range if at all possible. Once you choose the best you can within your budget you have to learn how to use your equipment to adapt to the other equipment within your chain. Of course, if your budget is in the tens of thousands your choices are greater and you are going to end up with a higher quality system. But conversely, that doesn’t mean you cannot get some great sounds from lower end offerings if you know how to adapt them in your system.

It’s all so subjective. Many, much brighter people than myself here, state that you should tweak your Axe-Fx’s with your ears and not your eyes. For me, that rings true with purchasing monitors and/or headphones as well. Listen to them. If you close your eyes and simply listen, I guarantee you that you cannot hear that price tag and might actually come away surprised.

Just my 2 cents.
 
That is a ridiculous statement. $3,000+. Adams7X, Dyna BMA5 or 6 MKII's, Solodyne, Focal. Come man. These are all fine monitors for us working folks. $1,000+ to $1,500 for a pair of any of these.
You most certainly do not need $3,000+ monitors to get a GREAT sound out the AXE. Jeeezzz, My measely Mackie HR624 MKII's ($1,000 for the pair) blow away the amps of most of my buddies.
 
Last edited:
I can't comment on making the gap between pro and consumer or even prosumer narrower because when it comes down to absolute brass tacks there is a difference and I'm still trying to navigate that line myself. How wide that gap is or even more importantly, how much that difference affects the buyer is a personal decision that unfortunately is almost always just beyond the power of the pocket book. There is almost always something that can do a better job at something and finding that sweet spot between good and affordable is going to vary because one measurable is subjective and the other is based on the individuals funds.

But with all the crap I just posted that really tells us nothing that we don't already know, the one part of good monitoring that many people overlook and is probably the most important and most expensive is room treatment. I won't even get into that in depth because I'm an absolute novice at it, but I just wanted to say that dropping $3K on a great set of monitors and ignoring the room is going to just create a whole other need. So if it was me I'd try to figure out exactly what it is that sounds bad with what I've got and consider the environment before I invested into anything else.

I will just add one other thing that really stood out from your post and Luke already brought it up. As soon as you said that it sounds great with music playing through it red flags went up. Anytime that I've listened to 'great' sounding monitors they almost never provide a flat, uncolored, natural response. We're so used to speakers that sound great, but for critical listening and mixing they are near useless most of the time except for testing the mix IMHO. Unfortunately that doesn't really say anything for or against your monitors because you are obviously looking for something that sounds nice and if speakers that sound nice don't sound nice then chances are that super flat ass accurate million dollar monitors aren't going to sound nice either. :)

Its complicated. I know that there is a particular person who doesn't come on here anymore that is an expert in loudspeaker design. Love him or hate him or don't care either way, but I have the utmost respect for that man's knowledge because sound reproduction and acoustics in general is one of the least understood and most frustrating part of this entire equation.

I can't emphasize strongly enough the idea of not spending some money until you come up with a plan of attack and that is going to be mostly based on the decision of investing a lot of time in research and learning or coming to a comfortable level of compromise. And this isn't an AxeFX specific issue; I think that anytime you create an imbalance in gear quality that weaknesses are amplified. You throw an old POD in there and it probably wouldn't be as evident.
 
Putting it into perspective, you spent 5.5x more on your monitors than the OP.

There is a law of diminishing returns in audio, but it doesn't kick in until most would use the term ludicrous.

I understand totally and don’t disagree with you. The weakest link will most always correlate into what you hear. But I also think there are many options out there fewer than 3k that sound quite good. There are a lot more variables to also consider such as environment etc. No arguments here, just trying to let the OP know he doesn’t have to spend 5k on his monitors + headphones to pair with the Axe to get adequate results that he will be happy with.
 
@Raven You said "Well unfortunately, $3,000 for speakers and $600 for headphones just seems absolutely absurd and unnecessary" And you are correct. I do admit your monitors really do fall on the low end but you still should be abl;e to get a nice sound. ATH -M50's are $159 and sound great, are recommended on many Daw forums-Just an example. I use them to mix, not so much for the Axe, but occasionly and they sound great.
Big Professional Studios, yes-big bucks-but I don't see that in your thread.
See my previous post
 
Last edited:
And how does listening to the same music differ when using speakers/headphones?

I notice that those speakers have 16 bit 44.1/48 converters. I din't thing anyone made 16 bit converters any more....
 
@Raven - The other big thing to consider is that as soon as you take off the phones the room comes into play. Try the Axe->speakers in another position, or in another room and see if your opinion changes. I have a set of M1's and they don't sound muffled with the Axe. Another thing is to try different phones -- it is distinctly possible that yours hype the high end, so your patches are actually lacking.

Also, search around for reviews of the M1's, I think there is a good one at the Sound On Sound web site. That can help you to understand the monitor's strengths and weaknesses as well.

HTH,
TT
 
The most obvious thing to me is to alter your patches for use with your monitors.

It sounds like you have tuned your patches by using your headphones & it sounds good to you. At that price point, for both headphones & monitors, the response & hence sound of the two could be wildly different from each other. Try copying your patches & then tweaking them (or use Global EQ) to get them to sound good with the monitors.
 
One could not possible know what it is like to drive in a rolls royce without ever having gone for a ride in one

Do i need to explain this one .

also how could someone spend 2,500.00 on an ax and 180.00 on a pair of monitors and expect ( the key word is expect) to have good results. If thats all you can afford but just have realistic expectations what the out come will be
Thank the mass marketers for this its like shooting fish in a consumer barrel for them.
 
In another thread I detail my move from the $300 range of monitors to the $900 range. There was a big difference for me. That said, the HS80m that I started out with can likey be had for a couple hundred dollars on sale or used. It was a truly fantastic monitor and you should hear no blanket over the axe with it. I don't think you need to break the bank with the monitors you buy, however, you don't want to buy a Mercedes AMG and put the absolute cheapest gas in it. You likely should bump up your monitors just a bit.
 
Back
Top Bottom