Struggling with Bass presets...

[jzucker]

Just for background - My bass style is more along the lines of jazz/fusion ala tony grey, janek gwizdala, matt garrison...

For bass, I'm running my FM3 into the effect return of my markbass big bang 500w head and then into a pair of Aguilar SL-112 cabs. This has served me well for bass and surprisingly for guitar.

For guitar I have been running with the cab emulation on, using redwirez EVM-12L or celestion red or 1265 cabs.

For bass, I have been using an IR by Tyler Spicer which sounds great for recording but when live, I bypass it. (https://www.tylerspicermusic.com/shop/p/a-slight-112-ir)

I'm using a fairly simple preset with optional compressor, tube preamp, SL-112 Cab (for recording), 10 band graphic, london reverb.

However, no matter what I do, I cannot get it to sound as punchy or as good as plugging the bass directly into the front of the amp. It feels like there is some low end attenuation happening through the FM3 that is not happening plugging direct into the front. Or maybe the markbass preamp is boosting some low end?

I tried compensating for the low end with the graphic eq but it never quite sounds right.

If I just plug into the front, this setup is the best bass setup I've ever heard and because I like to have some reverb and a few other effects that are switchable, I want to make this work in the same way as the guitar setup. i.e. I don't want to run the FM3 in the loop just for effects for bass but then use it exclusively for guitar...

Just wondering what other bass players have been doing...

 

[Wallygatorr1976]

You have to set one output to you amp and column pre cab sim, and out to FOH post cab sim. In my presets I have the different effects pre and post amp block, then signal splits to out 3 (my GK power amp with GK 4x10 cab) and to cab sim block that goes to out 1 (IEM) and 2 (FOH).

 

[jzucker]

You have to set one output to you amp and column pre cab sim, and out to FOH post cab sim. In my presets I have the different effects pre and post amp block, then signal splits to out 3 (my GK power amp with GK 4x10 cab) and to cab sim block that goes to out 1 (IEM) and 2 (FOH).

As I mentioned, I am not using the cab sim when I'm running into the effect return. It's not related to the cab sim.

 

[Wallygatorr1976]

Arę you using the amp block? That could be a problem... Use amp block, bypass cab and connect out to return of effect loop in Markbass.

 

[Greg Ferguson]

Rather than rely exclusively on a description, export the preset and attach it to your OP where we can see it and adjust things we see that could be problematic.

If all you give us is a description then you are relying on us to imagine what you are doing, and we can imagine a lot more wrong things than you can, so help us help you.

 

[jzucker]

Arę you using the amp block? That could be a problem... Use amp block, bypass cab and connect out to return of effect loop in Markbass.

i'm using tube preamp as my amp block just to have tone controls. Tube pre has the amp block disabled. Not sure I get what you're saying about using an amp block when I really just want the dvmark amp and not amp modeling. At least not until I get something I like without it.

 

[jzucker]

Rather than rely exclusively on a description, export the preset and attach it to your OP where we can see it and adjust things we see that could be problematic.

If all you give us is a description then you are relying on us to imagine what you are doing, and we can imagine a lot more wrong things than you can, so help us help you.

it's attached. thanks for looking.

 

[jzucker]

it's the tube preamp that's sucking tone. This sort of exposes a big weakness of the fractal amp models. The lack of a great SS bass amp...

 

[jasmeece]

Check out Dr. Bonkers posts. I had some success using the JC120 with a cab sim. Maybe you can run that , I have never gotten the tube pre to sound good with bass or guitar

 

[jzucker]

Check out Dr. Bonkers posts. I had some success using the JC120 with a cab sim. Maybe you can run that , I have never gotten the tube pre to sound good with bass or guitar

the original jc120 circuit is extremely noisy. (Hissy). Did fractal fix that? At any rate, i'm currently using it with no amp and just a graphic eq but i'm struggling to replicate the sound of the markbass head. It sounds good though. The tube pre just doesn't work for bass IMO. With my precision i'm using '59 bassman heads and a '57 4x10 cab and it sounds really motown-ish so that's good. But with my 5 string and roundwounds, I haven't gotten a good low B when any of the amps I've tried...

 

[jasmeece]

I don’t know if it is noisy but I thought it sounded good. The other amp I used for bass was thr CAE clean side

 

[Bodde]

Have you tried the Tube Pre model without a cab model? For fusion you need a clean, not boomy sound. All the bass cab models sound too boomy/rock based for me. Same goes for the Axe fx bass amp models, besides the FAS bass model. I would love to have more bass Amp/cab models for modern fusion/funk, like Aguilar, Bergantino, Epifani and so.

 

[dr bonkers]

the original jc120 circuit is extremely noisy. (Hissy). Did fractal fix that? At any rate, i'm currently using it with no amp and just a graphic eq but i'm struggling to replicate the sound of the markbass head. It sounds good though. The tube pre just doesn't work for bass IMO. With my precision i'm using '59 bassman heads and a '57 4x10 cab and it sounds really motown-ish so that's good. But with my 5 string and roundwounds, I haven't gotten a good low B when any of the amps I've tried...

Try the preset in my thread in this bass section and dial back the gain if your pickups produce blazing distortion with it.

 

[mistermikev]

When you say tube pre... do you literally mean you are using the tube pre model or are you using an ampeg/orange/mesa model? Either way... if I understand correct u r going out to your cab b4 a cab block... you might take a look at the speaker tab of the amp block and play w the imp curve. i don't think there are any 1x12 imp curves specifically tuned for bass cabs... but in theory you could look up your cab and try to fiddle the knobs. just a thought.

at any rate... I'll relay my novice observations - the compressor: for bass it seems that most compressors attenuate some lows (in and out of axe fx) so I'm running a side chain. what I like to do is put a send block right near the input, then put a return block right near the output. this way you can pass your dry signal all the way to the output and mix it in. I freq will also put a para eq in front of the return and filter out highs or sometimes pass only highs depending. there is also a sidechain in the compressor block but I like the send/ret because it will bypass any fx i use as well and just give me straight input at the output.

afa jazz chorus - yes the originals are a bit noisy but I've used the jc on bass and it works pretty good for me. i don't recall fussing with noise and I typically go to the input and turn the noise gate thresh off on anything but distorted (reg) guitar.

I don't know if my ears are as discriminating as yours... but I've been pretty happy with the axe fx stock bass models and have made many presets i like using anything from a jcm800 to soldano clean. def have to get in there and tweak them but I like to think I'm figuring it out. that said I mostly tweak my tones using headphones or studio monitors and then send them (ir and all) out to my greenboy cabs which use 3 way crossover and are fairly flat.
anywho I'll stop blathering on, hope there's something in my rambling you can use.

 

[Admin M@]

send block right near the input, then put a return block right near the output

This is no different from using shunts to create a parallel path. If you weren't EQ'ing the compressed and uncompressed lines differently, you could even just lower the Mix on the compressor. If you feel that the compressor is over responsive in the low end, try using its Sidechain to cut those lows or to boost frequencies above them.

 

[mistermikev]

tried your preset and the levels were redlined all over for me... tweaked a bit... didn't spend a lot of time on it so no warranty here... hehe

 

[mistermikev]

This is no different from using shunts to create a parallel path. If you weren't EQ'ing the compressed and uncompressed lines differently, you could even just lower the Mix on the compressor. If you feel that the compressor is over responsive in the low end, try using its Sidechain to cut those lows or to boost frequencies above them.

View attachment 109439

i actually used to use the shunts to do that... send ret uncomplicates it a bit - i need to keep things simple for me lol. i do want to say tho - wasn't being critical of the compressor at all... love it.