Struggling to get a raw Marshall Plexi tone like early KISS

Stringtheorist

Stringtheorist

Fractal Fanatic
Tried all the Marshall sims, the Brit Brown/Pre and the Marshas but I'm finding it difficult to get the rawness of the early KISS sound with any of them. Some kind of Drive block seems necessary with the Marshall models (even though I'm pretty sure Kiss never used pedals) but none of them sound quite right without a lot of tweaking. (My setup is Axe into Atomic 50/50 into 2x12 cabs.) I'm banking on V6.0's tone matching feature being the solution but would love some help selecting the right amp model to start with. Currently I seem to be getting closest using the Brit Pre model with the Gain set low. Any alternative suggestions?

This tribute band seems to be using Marshall heads and the tone sounds spot on to me:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9wgCxfSC5BY&feature=relmfu
 
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I think a lot more people used pedals than we think, especially around that time they were all the rage. I would be interested in having the same kind of tone in the arsenal as well. I think the key is to use less gain on the amp. I had a jcm800 in the 80's and that thing had no gain, total chank chank, I put a dod eq in front of it with the level pegged and it turned into a beast.
 
The Brit Pre seems to be modelled on the OD2 channel of the Marshall JMP-1 - I used one of these for many years and actually found the OD1 channel much more usable in dynamics and vol knob clean up - the OD2 was too compressed.

I'd agree with dp above and try using a drive block - I used to think an amp should provide all the drive and tone until I heard Gary Moore with a JTM 45 and a Marshall Guv'nor whacked up full
 
JTM 45 with the boost on and a Plus Drive sounds pretty good... can't say it sounds more authentic than the Brit Pre on its own though. :/
 
Kruegmeister said:
Have you tried the Brit JVM?
That is the Marshall JVM410, I like that Marshall a lot lately.
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That's a good model... It's voicing is much better for this than most of the other candidates, imo, but still sounds too compressed for my liking. Have to keep the gain pretty low.
 
Kruegmeister said:
Have you tried the Brit JVM?
That is the Marshall JVM410, I like that Marshall a lot lately.
Click to expand...
That's a good model... It's voicing is much better for this than most of the other candidates, imo, but still sounds too compressed for my liking, and not "gritty" enough. Have to keep the gain pretty low also.
 
First amp in that clip is a Crate transistor and in another clip the lead player was adjusting it. So I guess the Marshall at the right is "Paul"'s. Looks like a JCM or JVM, single row of knobs. The walls look like dummies to me. The bright tone is the Crate, the boomy one is the Marshall, off course because that one is not aimed at the camera...
 
So it says in that link that Ace used the Marshall superlead, which model in the II would be closest to a Superlead?

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nevermind just looked it up on the wiki page the "Plexi normal" is based on a Marshall superlead
 
The other thing here is, and please forgive me if I'm not remembering this correctly, all your guitars have only single coil pickups, don't they, Stringtheorist? If so, that would make chasing that early KISS tone almost impossible. That tone from the video you posted IS a bit "clangy", but still has a little gain on it. I haven't been able to nail that tone either. For me, the guitar tones on KISS and Hotter Than Hell are just weird for some reason. Particularly Hotter Than Hell. My favorite of the early tones is on Dressed To Kill. Not tons different than the first two records, but maybe just recorded better. Once you move into Rock N Roll Over and Destroyer, you're in different tonal territory though. Much better sounding records all together. Working with Eddie Kramer and Bob Ezrin doesn't hurt either. :)
 
Jiffzillla said:
The other thing here is, and please forgive me if I'm not remembering this correctly, all your guitars have only single coil pickups, don't they, Stringtheorist? If so, that would make chasing that early KISS tone almost impossible. That tone from the video you posted IS a bit "clangy", but still has a little gain on it. I haven't been able to nail that tone either. For me, the guitar tones on KISS and Hotter Than Hell are just weird for some reason. Particularly Hotter Than Hell. My favorite of the early tones is on Dressed To Kill. Not tons different than the first two records, but maybe just recorded better. Once you move into Rock N Roll Over and Destroyer, you're in different tonal territory though. Much better sounding records all together. Working with Eddie Kramer and Bob Ezrin doesn't hurt either. :)
Click to expand...
I'm using either an ESP Eclipse or a PRS HBII for this.
 
I TM Firehouse from KISS KISS yesterday just fooling around. It was right on but I didn't save it. I had just picked one of the basic presets similar in 6.0 and did the TM. I need an early KISS preset so I will be revisiting it. It's in there!! I heard it yesterday.
 
try the Jcm 800 if you have upgraded to 6.0 that should get you pretty close to the sound of their first 3 albums.
 
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