Strange levels with USB

T

Thomas Larsson

Experienced
Am I the only one having problems when using the AXE-II as a soundcard.
I´m trying if I could use my AXE-II and my macBookPro as my only guitar recording equipment .

I have two big problems:

1. To loud guitar monitoring level

I can´t find a way to set the monitoring levels between background and what´s being recorded (exept from lowering recording level)
My guitar becomes way to loud in the mix (when recording ) if I want to record full resolution (almost peak) . I never monitor through Logic pro . I always
monitor through a mixer or a good latency"free" soundcard . This time the AXE-II.

2. Way to low dry input recording level

When recording dry track from usb, the level becomes like 40 dB to low . Utility shows between 50-75% at input-level-indikator.
I thought digital levels were supposed to be the same.
 
Have you checked if your input and output levels be configured correctly? You can set those with the "soft-knobs" on the input page of the i/o menu. Also section 3.4.9 on the user manual will show how to use it as a computer audio interface.
 
Well , I got instr in level at 100% . My strat have 54 customshop pickups. Like I said , the input signal (at the utility-page)is around 50 and 75 % when I strum the strings.
If that was to be recorded it would be like 2-4 dB´s below clipping I suppose. But now I get like almost nothing . I guess around -40dB .
It can be heard but it´s extremely low.

I am able to record output 1 (the processed signal) at desired level over USB.
 
The same happens to me, really low dry signal even though my input tickles the Red when I play...

Is that a feature or a bug?

I attached an image of the example of one of my recordings.
 

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It doesnt make much sense to me. If the actuall input level that my guitar is giving is flicking the red light why is that the recorded level is lower?
The recording dry level should be exactly the same as the input that my guitar is giving. One of the things so announced in AXE-FX II was the unity gain thing, and now we're realising that its messing with the dry levels?
 
I have found this as well (I think we are saying the same thing here)
when I record thru USB my hi gain patches all record hot a shell, there is no "room". I have turned down the output level in the I/O menu
to -6 and it didn't make much of a difference. I'm not even clipping the red on the output lights either.
It seems like using the USB thru Ouptut 1 is very hot.
 
kmanick said:
I have found this as well (I think we are saying the same thing here)
when I record thru USB my hi gain patches all record hot a shell, there is no "room". I have turned down the output level in the I/O menu
to -6 and it didn't make much of a difference. I'm not even clipping the red on the output lights either.
It seems like using the USB thru Ouptut 1 is very hot.
Click to expand...

Kmanick I think the problem here is not the wet level being hot, you can control that with the level output on the amp or cab blocks.
The problem is that the dry direct recorded level is very low when compared to the level hiting the AD in the AXE-FX and there is no way to adjust this.
 
Yeah ! I dont see the point in recording -30 dB or lower . It's like recording
at 19 bit reslution. Pro Audio is going 32bits and we are throwing
information away on purpuse. It seems that it's because people are concidered
to stupid to fix the attennuation before the ampblock themselves. So now whe are recording
18 to 19 bit. I am not gonna use that digital reamping. You also have to convert
all songs to 48 kHz anyway.
 
Cliff, can you please consider this in a new firmware update?

I really think this is important. Specially if you are doing guitar pot volume changes to clean up the sound a bit as an effect the guitar parts quickly become really quiet and the bit resolution goes even down the 18 and 19 bit Thomas was mentioning. We are bound to loose quality in the guitar sound tails!
 
I think you guys are off-base on this. The dry track should be recorded at a lower level to save some headroom to later add amp gain, effects, etc. That's the beauty of 24-bit recording...you have all this additional headroom. But once you reamp, it should be brought up to a reasonable level similar to that of your wet track. And if it's not, then increase the amp level in your preset when you run the dry track back through the Axe FX.

Remember...if your dry signal is recorded too hot, you run the risk of clipping your output converters when you send it back through the Axe. Recording at a lower volume really has nothing to do with bit depth.
 
guitarzpt said:
The same happens to me, really low dry signal even though my input tickles the Red when I play...

Is that a feature or a bug?

I attached an image of the example of one of my recordings.
Click to expand...

That looks completely normal to me.
 
Webb said:
I think you guys are off-base on this. The dry track should be recorded at a lower level to save some headroom to later add amp gain, effects, etc. That's the beauty of 24-bit recording...you have all this additional headroom. But once you reamp, it should be brought up to a reasonable level similar to that of your wet track. And if it's not, then increase the amp level in your preset when you run the dry track back through the Axe FX.

Remember...if your dry signal is recorded too hot, you run the risk of clipping your output converters when you send it back through the Axe. Recording at a lower volume really has nothing to do with bit depth.
Click to expand...

The need to add gain is because it is a low signal. We really just want to create a guitarampsounding signal don't we. ?
If i send that cold signal to a real amp (from the d/a converter)wich some of us do it,s gonna be noisy check the reason for the d/a pads on the axe. outputs. The thing usually is to crank the converters and use a passive pad afterwards.

Remember , you can not clip a d/ a converter with a recorded file. A/d and d/a
should work with same levels 0-100 %.
 
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Webb said:
I think you guys are off-base on this. The dry track should be recorded at a lower level to save some headroom to later add amp gain, effects, etc. That's the beauty of 24-bit recording...you have all this additional headroom. But once you reamp, it should be brought up to a reasonable level similar to that of your wet track. And if it's not, then increase the amp level in your preset when you run the dry track back through the Axe FX.

Remember...if your dry signal is recorded too hot, you run the risk of clipping your output converters when you send it back through the Axe. Recording at a lower volume really has nothing to do with bit depth.
Click to expand...

I think you are not seeing the issue here...
If it was as you say why is it so important to match the input level flicking the red light on the input? According to your theory we should set the input level way before the red light otherwise we wouldn't have headroom to add amp gain.
Did you understand our point now?
 
Thomas Larsson said:
Yeah ! I dont see the point in recording -30 dB or lower . It's like recording
at 19 bit reslution. Pro Audio is going 32bits and we are throwing
information away on purpuse. It seems that it's because people are concidered
to stupid to fix the attennuation before the ampblock themselves. So now whe are recording
18 to 19 bit. I am not gonna use that digital reamping. You also have to convert
all songs to 48 kHz anyway.
Click to expand...
Dynamic range exists to capture dynamic RANGE not just levels before peaking. The reason is to capture low volume signals without noise. A guitar is a very low level signal. If you raise it by 30 dB its the same as hitting the front end of an amp with a 30dB boost.
 
guitarzpt said:
Cliff, can you please consider this in a new firmware update?

I really think this is important. Specially if you are doing guitar pot volume changes to clean up the sound a bit as an effect the guitar parts quickly become really quiet and the bit resolution goes even down the 18 and 19 bit Thomas was mentioning. We are bound to loose quality in the guitar sound tails!
Click to expand...
Seriously?!?!?!?!?!?! ANd render it useless for recording? Stop reading bad info on the intrawebz about digital audio and record!
 
guitarzpt said:
I think you are not seeing the issue here...
If it was as you say why is it so important to match the input level flicking the red light on the input? According to your theory we should set the input level way before the red light otherwise we wouldn't have headroom to add amp gain.
Did you understand our point now?
Click to expand...
You do realize that in order for the Axe to see unity gain a interment level inputs metering and line inputs metering will not be the same right?
 
16,777,216.

The dry track should be low level. If you bypass the AxeFX you are hearing and seeing the dry level which should be low (unless your levels are all jacked up IMHO....I know that some people use different alignment methods, but that's another discussion). If your dry track was as loud as your wet track when you sent it back into the AxeFX it would be WAY too hot.

Being a 16bit guy for a long time I understand your concerns, but with those extra 8 bits you add -6dBSNR for EACH bit and you are doubling the number of discrete levels of quantization. So even at -30dB you're going to have -124dBSNR...that's a lot. That's still going to get you in the 20bit arena.
 
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