Stephen Carpenter, the JMP1, and Diamond Eyes

afxwinter

Inspired
Hey guys.

I recently bought an SC-607B and have been trying to nail the tone from the song Diamond Eyes.
I've gotten pretty close with the JMP1 model on the Axe Ultra but I've found that it doesn't produce the same low frequencies as the tone on the album.
I ran the guitar through voxengo span at the part in the song where it's JUST guitar and you can see that the frequencies go into 30hz.
There's no amount of tweaking on the JMP1 model on the axe that can get that sort of bass.
I did manage to get more bass out of other amp models, but the JMP just can't seem to do it, regardless of how much I tweak all the advanced and amp geek settings.
The JCM2000 cab seems to be even better than some of the redwirez cabs I have so I've been sticking with that.
Does anyone have any suggestions as to how to try to nail this tone?

Here's the song I'm talking about:

 
I think you meant to post this in another part of the forum? :)

Edit:
If you can analyze the frequencies in the recorded tone and compare it to your preset you might find out where to put a boost with a PEQ or a filter?

Another Thing you could try is to put a filter after the amp/cab set it to peaking and turn up the gain and see if you can find the right frequency that
you are missing.

Jens
 
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The JMP is one of my go-to amp sims, and I usually thicken up the bottom end (when that is what I want) with a PEQ. Have you tried this yet?
 
The JMP is one of my go-to amp sims, and I usually thicken up the bottom end (when that is what I want) with a PEQ. Have you tried this yet?

Thanks for the reply!
I've been playing with the PEQ, but it seems unable to add low end beyond 50-60hz.
I think each amp sim has a certain EQ spectrum available and that's it, at least that's what it seems like with what I've experimented with.
I switched the sim to the 5150 and it had a lot more low end immediately so I don't think it was the guitar.
I even plugged in my bass to test and it couldn't get below that threshold.
 
Have you tried using the 4x12 German cab with the R121 mic sim? I would think that'd give you a lot of low-end, but maybe not enough in the 30hz range? Give it a shot!
 
Also try running a 2nd amp like the recto to fill in the bottom. I use dual amps with great success
 
Also try running a 2nd amp like the recto to fill in the bottom. I use dual amps with great success

That's a damn good idea.
I usually run one amp per side, but I think I'll take your advice and blend in a 2nd amp and tweak it so it only covers the lows. Maybe do a lowpass on that and a highpass on the jmp1.
Thanks man!

Also thanks to the guys who suggested using different cabs, unfortunately the cabs aren't able to add what's not there from the amp so none of them managed to get me the low end I'm looking for with the jmp1
 
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Another thing I do to my JMP patches is change the tone stack of the amp to Brownface or Dr Z. If you haven't played with the tone stack option, I highly recommend it. That alone has added a ton of bottom end to my JMP tone.
 
Thanks for the tonestack ideas guys!
I did actually try that when I was tweaking, had the spectragraph up and saw that no matter what, the frequencies below 50hz weren't there, as soon as I switched the amp model to 5150 though it definitely had more sub-50hz freqs.
I feel that certain amps must have a built in highpass despite what we set the adv. controls too.
 
Don't forget, there is SO much post production on a big name commercial CD. I guarantee the tone you would hear standing in the room is nowhere near what is on the CD. Also, Steph tracks multiple guitars.
 
Yeah I'm wondering how important that sub-bass is to the sound on that album.
I remember reading that due to the low end on steph's guitars they'd mixed the bass differently.
The thing I'm assuming is that I couldn't post-process more of a frequency that doesn't exisist in my signal, so I was just trying to see if I can get the axe to do it on it's own.
 
Yeah I'm wondering how important that sub-bass is to the sound on that album.
I remember reading that due to the low end on steph's guitars they'd mixed the bass differently.
The thing I'm assuming is that I couldn't post-process more of a frequency that doesn't exisist in my signal, so I was just trying to see if I can get the axe to do it on it's own.

you can always route the input (DI) signal around the amp/cab block, EQ & compress the hell out of it (huge bass boost + lowpass filter) and mix it in with the 'amped' signal.
it might be preferrable to have clean lows anyway.

edit:
or use a clean Brownface, lotsa bass here
 
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Thanks for the help Don, I ended up blending a really bassy lowpassed recto + recto 2 cab with my jmp1 setup and here's how it sounds:


What do you think? TOO bassy or is it working for the mix?
 
I think that's very close! Though I think that now the mid/treble is missing a bit, the attack is clearer/more defined on the video, but
that is of course also a studio production.

And I am in no way an expert on this music, even if this is the first deftones that I've heard and liked :)

Jens
 
Afxwinter!!! My brother!! I actually posted a thread about stephs tone in the preset exchange area and they deleted when the had the whole axe 2 ruckus. But point being is, you should upload this patch man. Thats pretty damn close and would love to work with you on this or any of his other patches. :)
 
And remember that Chris Lord Alge mixed this record, and likely eq'd it to help bring out the frequencies mentioned in your OP. I've seen Deftones live, and (as you might guess), the tone you mentioned did not match the recorded tone. (FYI - I don't believe Carpenter was using an AxeFx at that time)

If you record the tone you've come up with and eq/ compress the guit track in post, you might be surprised at how much closer you might get.

Ref:
Secrets Of The Mix Engineers: Chris Lord-Alge
Diamond Eyes - Deftones - Gearslutz.com

My $0.01
 
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