Steep Learning Curve!

ShreddinFrets

ShreddinFrets

New Member
When I initially bought my axe 2 I knew there was going to be a lengthy process in learning it. I had read this many times over so I embraced myself for the challenge of tone searching! After a month of downloading patches, and tweaking my own I couldnt seem to find a tone that I simply enjoyed playing as I was spending so much time trying to dial one in!! I even considered selling my beloved black box, crazy I know. But finally, I came across the ol Dizzy ch4 and tweaked the settings for a couple of hours and BOOM, kick ass tight and punchy tone to play with! I guess the reason for this post is to tell others who are struggling with the Axe Fx II's steep learning curve to STICK WITH IT! You wont be dissapointed, this thing just keeps getting better and better! Give it time and you'll acquaint yourself with its plethora of settings, and the rest is history.
 
Exactly what happened to me, I wanted "that marshall sound" out of the plexi without having to crank all knobs at full.
Tweaked here and there.

Job done.

Now I have an amazing plexi model.
 
I think the biggest misconception that new users make is that they pick the amp and cab model by the name and then try to make it sound how "they think" it should. While the amp models are what they are many times one must instead find the right starting point for the tone you are seeking. I've found many tones from amps that I would have never thought would give me what I want. Well actually that's the 2nd thing because first you actually have to know what you are looking for as mindlessly tweaking in hopes of stumbling onto a killer tone can happen, but IME that rarely happens.
 
All the models are like this. Take your time. One killer amp- tone at a time. The master IRs via Ultra Res and CabLab to find the right response.


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I rarely get on with any of the factory presets. Must be my guitar (PRS Cu 24). 99% of the time, I keep it simple Amp-->Cab-->Reverb. The less things in the chain, the less things that can adversely affect what I'm trying to achieve. I don't believe in adding an 808 drive because "reasons". If you can't justify and rationalise what you're doing and tweaking, you probably don't need to tweak it anyway. One thing I have started doing is to add a GEQ block before the amp. Works especially well with the boomy/bassy types of amp like the Uberschall.
 
ShreddinFrets said:
After a month of downloading patches, and tweaking my own I couldnt seem to find a tone that I simply enjoyed playing as I was spending so much time trying to dial one in!! I even considered selling my beloved black box, crazy I know. But finally, I came across the ol Dizzy ch4 and tweaked the settings for a couple of hours and BOOM, kick ass tight and punchy tone to play with! I guess the reason for this post is to tell others who are struggling with the Axe Fx II's steep learning curve to STICK WITH IT! You wont be dissapointed, this thing just keeps getting better and better! Give it time and you'll acquaint yourself with its plethora of settings, and the rest is history.
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With the Axe FX II I really had no learning curve with it after spending 2+ years with the Pod HD tweak box... To me, the Axe is 5 times as easy to program, and has 100 times better tone once you are finished.
 
I don't believe in adding an 808 drive because "reasons". If you can't justify and rationalise what you're doing and tweaking, you probably don't need to tweak it anyway.
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+1.

I don't see any point in using the drives at all actually! There is so much gain to be had from the amp choices as to render anything in the drive block utterly useless! Why waste the CPU, increase the need for tweaking and use up the grid space? Of course this is purely my opinion and I am glad that the Axe gives us all of these choices.
 
mjlongo said:
+1.

I don't see any point in using the drives at all actually! There is so much gain to be had from the amp choices as to render anything in the drive block utterly useless! Why waste the CPU, increase the need for tweaking and use up the grid space? Of course this is purely my opinion and I am glad that the Axe gives us all of these choices.
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That's what I thought, until I started to wonder about it from a more 'traditional' angle... some discussion here
 
Not use drive blocks? Hawg warsh!

I'll use anything and everything in this little black box to achieve my desired tone(s). That's what it's all there for, isn't it?

If I need it, I'll use it. If I don't, I won't, but a blanket suggestion that drives aren't needed at all is just silly. I mainly create and use high gain patches, *extreme* high gain in some cases (think heavily over driven ADA MP1 for 80's style tones) so drive blocks are nearly a requirement for most amps in order to get the effect I want.
 
mjlongo said:
+1.

I don't see any point in using the drives at all actually! There is so much gain to be had from the amp choices as to render anything in the drive block utterly useless! Why waste the CPU, increase the need for tweaking and use up the grid space? Of course this is purely my opinion and I am glad that the Axe gives us all of these choices.
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While I respect your opinion, I strongly disagree. Most people don't use the drive block simply for the extra gain, they do it for the tone that the drive pedal adds. In fact, 95% of the time I use the 808 I leave the gain around 1-10 MAX. I like the saturation and bite it adds to the tone, which would be IMPOSSIBLE to dial in with just the amp block. Especially considering each drive pedal has its own unique sound.
 
Yeah, I'm with Shredder3386. I use drives with minimal gain and very high level for how they interact with the amp, rather than the additional gain. Playing modern metal, you really need that reverse-mid-scoop and super-hot signal hitting the front of the amp.

With the Axe you could no doubt do similar with GEQ and things, but it just works with an 808 or a BB or so on... that's the way you hit a real 5150. The natural EQ of the drives is awesomely suited to the front end of an amp.
 
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Fabio KTG said:
I don't believe in adding an 808 drive because "reasons" / One thing I have started doing is to add a GEQ block before the amp.
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This is basically the same idea. Most people keep the TS808 with the drive at 0. At that setting it acts more like an eq than a drive.

Severed said:
I think the biggest misconception that new users make is that they pick the amp and cab model by the name and then try to make it sound how "they think" it should.
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This. The IR is the ultimate "bottle-neck" for an amp tone. If the IR isnt right, the amp will sound off compared to what people are used to hearing.
 
The learning curve is indeed VERY steep. I hope to one day reap the benefits, but dialing in your tone is a tedious process and I've yet to find much I like. But the upside is there.
 
I didn't have a problem dialing in tones that I liked quickly. I'm working with a buddy of mine who is more of a player than a tech (I'm both). We laugh because we started out with the Double Verb amp and it sounds SO good that we have barely touched upon the other models. Of course with the gain and X/Y control, it's like a 2 channel amp and unlike any Twin I've ever played (in a good way!). The learning curve for me has been dealing with the CONTROL options. I'm pretty good with MIDI and had already integrated my UNO FCB1010 with other systems, so I know it pretty well but learning the intricacies of what can be done in a patch is where I've been spending most of my time. Last weekend we played around with Tone match. We tone-matched an acoustic guitar (and mandolin) to an electric input signal and the results were VERY interesting.

SO interesting in fact, that my friend wanted to incorporate that sound into our Double Verb patch as a switchable "acoustic-like" sound. As luck would have it, we had one un-mapped button left on the FCB's related patch. The trick was trying to figure out how to rig an A/B switch in the layout. There didn't seem to be one available so I was looking at doing it on the back-end with a mixer block. Luckily, the answer was here in the forum. I found a post about using a vol/pan block in each line, setting BYPASS mode on one to THRU and to MUTE on the other, and mapping the same MIDI msg to both BYPASS controllers. One passes audio only when enabled, the other only when bypassed. I NEVER would have come up with that on my own!
 
stringrazor said:
I didn't have a problem dialing in tones that I liked quickly. I'm working with a buddy of mine who is more of a player than a tech (I'm both). We laugh because we started out with the Double Verb amp and it sounds SO good that we have barely touched upon the other models. Of course with the gain and X/Y control, it's like a 2 channel amp and unlike any Twin I've ever played (in a good way!). The learning curve for me has been dealing with the CONTROL options. I'm pretty good with MIDI and had already integrated my UNO FCB1010 with other systems, so I know it pretty well but learning the intricacies of what can be done in a patch is where I've been spending most of my time. Last weekend we played around with Tone match. We tone-matched an acoustic guitar (and mandolin) to an electric input signal and the results were VERY interesting.

SO interesting in fact, that my friend wanted to incorporate that sound into our Double Verb patch as a switchable "acoustic-like" sound. As luck would have it, we had one un-mapped button left on the FCB's related patch. The trick was trying to figure out how to rig an A/B switch in the layout. There didn't seem to be one available so I was looking at doing it on the back-end with a mixer block. Luckily, the answer was here in the forum. I found a post about using a vol/pan block in each line, setting BYPASS mode on one to THRU and to MUTE on the other, and mapping the same MIDI msg to both BYPASS controllers. One passes audio only when enabled, the other only when bypassed. I NEVER would have come up with that on my own!
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The Double Verb is for sure my favorite amp model that I've tried. A lot of the Marshall style tones have gotten a bit nasally/mid-heavy for my liking, compared to my real marshalls. The Double Verb sounds WAY better than the Deluxe Verb model, and immensely fatter than my actual deluxe reverb on the clean channel.

The X/Y feature is great for recording, but live, there's a pretty big switching hiccup when using the X/Y via scenes. I find myself just having to use two amp blocks, but oh well.

And yeah, a ton of people told me the Axe was very plug and play, but as I mentioned in my earlier post, I find about 20 tones I hate for the 1 that I like.
 
A huge Thanks to Spikey at comment 7, as ive been worrying about how complicated this black magic box is going to be when i get it. But after reading Spikey's comments i'm more a piece with just getting on with it like i have with my HD500.

I should have my XL in a couple of weeks & then tweaksville hear I come. true time to rock \m/ 8)
 
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