Stand-in switch behavior

<MACHINE>

Inspired
I have stand-in switches in port 3/4 (FC-6) that trigger scenes 7 and 8. They work as expected and are set up with only a tap for each scene respectively. I did have to reverse polarity on both of them, otherwise there was around a one second hesitation. They are both set to follow hardware as well.

But I've noticed there's still a slight hesitation. With a "normal quick tap" it seems to be switching upon release rather than the instant it's pressed as on the built-in FC-6 switches.

One thing I did to confirm the oddity was to press and hold each stand-in switch (there is no hold functionality programed to the switch[es]). This resulted in about a one second or so hesitation (similar to above).... compared to the built-in switches which instantly change upon pressing (as well as pressing & holding [again no hold functionality program to these switches either]). The delay in switching is just much longer when holding the switch down vs a quick tap.

I have two different types of switches and they both (mal)function exactly the same. The only difference is the polarity has to be reversed for one brand vs the other.

Has anyone else noticed anything like this?

The only thing I can think of that might slow them down, and honestly I'm just guessing as I have no idea, is that I used 18 gauge wire. I repurposed two of the switches from the boxes they came in into another box I had made, and the other two switches were purchased individually. So I needed longer wire to accomplish this and 18 gauge is all I had on hand.

I know my way around the Axe III pretty well and can't think of any other settings that might affect this ... -am- I missing any?

Anyone have any ideas?
 
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No such delays on my FC-12. Stand In switches fire immediately if no hold function is defined no matter if I hold the switch or not. What FW version is on your FC-6? 1.12 is the latest.
 
Normally Open or Normally Closed switches?

I believe NC will trigger faster due to the nature of the circuit.

@Joe Bfstplk can probably advise.

Also I assume they are momentary switches?
Yeah, they're all momentary but I'm not sure if they're NO or NC.
Is there a way to distinguish that, like with a meter or something?
 
NO switches are open when not being pressed (open circuit).
NC switches are closed when not being pressed (closed circuit).

You can verify with a multimeter between the tip and sleeve for the first switch and the ring and sleeve for the second switch.
 
Either way, NO vs NC is not going to make the kind of time difference you're describing unless you are very deliberately pushing the switch down extremely slowly. If your switches are not soft touch and have a mechanical click when activated, there's likely no difference at all.

You said you have the switches plugged into the 3+4 jack. Do they behave the same way when plugged into the 1+2 jack?
 
Either way, NO vs NC is not going to make the kind of time difference you're describing unless you are very deliberately pushing the switch down extremely slowly. If your switches are not soft touch and have a mechanical click when activated, there's likely no difference at all.

You said you have the switches plugged into the 3+4 jack. Do they behave the same way when plugged into the 1+2 jack?
I verified one set is NC and the other is NO. I swapped them out and they were identical in lag. And yeah they (all) performed the same in the 1+2 jack.

I very much doubt it, but suppose it's worth asking: is it even remotely possible the 18 gauge wire I used is causing this?
As a side note... I have a nice station and am pretty good at soldering. I (triple) checked my work and it all looks solid.

Is there any such thing as "better than the best" switches, that potentially could work that fraction of a second faster, available anywhere?

Ultimately it doesn't seem like there's going to be any other solution (except maybe a second FC-6 [or sell and get a 12]🤣)... and that won't be the end of the world as it's not a drastic hesitation.

But it IS noticeable and a bit jarring after being used to the FC....which is a bit disappointing as I had a (3D printed) box made for the switches to sit next to the FC (I wrapped it in carbon fiber vinyl so it matches the wrap on the FC 🤘🏻😈🤘🏻).... and redid the whole board with a temple audio duo 24....so if there's any possibility of making it perform like the built-in switches, that would be amazing.
 
Extremely unlikely. They only carry a small control voltage and it reads either high or low when you change the switch state. 18 gauge wire is way more than enough for that. Larger wires will simply carry the signal more easily as there's less resistance in the wire itself, but at the lengths in use in a typical pedal it's a negligible change. You can check the closed resistance through the switch across the TRS cable contacts with a multimeter. It should be very low like below maybe 20 ohms or so depending on how long your TRS cable is.

To rule out the switches completely, use a pair of pliers or a bent paperclip or something metal to manually short between the tip and sleeve contacts on the TRS cable plugged into the FC jacks. If it still has the delay when manually shorting the contacts, you know the switch is not the issue. Don't forget to try a different TRS cable as well to rule that out.

Also keep in mind that the refresh rate of the FC screens can lag behind the actual change in the Axe FX a bit, so watch the Axe FX's screen and listen for the audio change relative to your switching.
 
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Extremely unlikely. They only carry a small control voltage and it reads either high or low when you change the switch state. 18 gauge wire is way more than enough for that. Larger wires will simply carry the signal more easily as there's less resistance in the wire itself, but at the lengths in use in a typical pedal it's a negligible change. You can check the closed resistance through the switch across the TRS cable contacts with a multimeter. It should be very low like below maybe 20 ohms or so depending on how long your TRS cable is.

To rule out the switches completely, use a pair of pliers or a bent paperclip or something metal to manually short between the tip and sleeve contacts on the TRS cable plugged into the FC jacks. If it still has the delay when manually shorting the contacts, you know the switch is not the issue. Don't forget to try a different TRS cable as well to rule that out.

Also keep in mind that the refresh rate of the FC screens can lag behind the actual change in the Axe FX a bit, so watch the Axe FX's screen and listen for the audio change relative to your switching.
Okay, I tried four different TRS cables (all of them basically brand new)...all of them had the same lag.

Interestingly though, manually shorting the unplugged cables produced an instant scene change (tested this with all four TRS cables).

So it seems it's either the switches or the wiring.

I ordered another single switch on Amazon (same one used for the scene stand-in). I'll leave this one intact, plug the TRS directly in and see if it makes a difference.
 
How do you have the switches wired? Any other components in there like LEDs or caps?
Just direct wired. I made sure everything was lined up tip to tip, ring to ring and ground to ground...all verified with a meter. There aren't any caps or LEDs.

But that brings up another question I was going to make a new thread for (might as well ask here though 😃). Is there a way to have a little LED light up when one of the (stand-in) switches are activated.. and then turn off when -any- other switch is activated?

Obviously I can see the main screen of the FC ... and I can also just -know- which scene it's on by having pressed it, but it would be extremely cool to have some sort of indicator light.
 
Not without also adding some semi-complex logic circuitry. With a momentary switch, the LED would only be on while you hold down the switch (or off depending if it's NO or NC), so you'd need logic circuits to set when the LED should be on or off. Without MIDI sysex capabilities it would have no way of staying in sync with other changes like preset changes as well. It would be far easier to just upgrade to an FC-12.
 
... It would be far easier to just upgrade to an FC-12.
Don't tempt me man🤣🤣🤣

Kidding aside, I really like the idea of having just eight switches for all of the scenes (I have two other switches which are dedicated for tuner and preset up and down (via tap [↑] and hold [↓])...so if the switch on its way doesn't solve any of this, I'll just have to live with it (the hesitation).16421912001085504852776318561516.jpg
(The yellow & black one is my old board I built, but it wasn't wide enough to add the 3D printed box)
 
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