Stage Sound Options

Rex said:
A noble cause. As a guitarist, the main drawback to a silent stage is the loss of feel and sustain. Here's how I'd approach it:
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While this is technically all true, I've found success with a silent stage and classic rock type sounds sans any monitor aside from IEM's (think cranked JCM 800'ish tones), though obviously feedback is out (you can somewhat dull the pain with pinch and artificial harmonics though LOL)!. Obviouly cleaner styles have no problem etc.

It depends on what styles you're doing and how much feedback/guitar sound field coupling you need etc.
 
DJD100 said:
While this is technically all true, I've found success with a silent stage and classic rock type sounds sans any monitor aside from IEM's (think cranked JCM 800'ish tones), though obviously feedback is out (you can somewhat dull the pain with pinch and artificial harmonics though LOL)!. Obviouly cleaner styles have no problem etc.

It depends on what styles you're doing and how much feedback/guitar sound field coupling you need etc.
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I think it depends heavily on your in ears as well. Mine are not a custom fit and while I’m getting good sounds out of them, I simply cannot recreate the soundstage that several on stage monitors provide. It’s just a different experience. This solution is a good compromise for me - hear and feel the guitar sound while eliminating the feedback caused by running loud vocals through the stage monitor. It’s all personal preference.
 
DJD100 said:
While this is technically all true, I've found success with a silent stage and classic rock type sounds sans any monitor aside from IEM's (think cranked JCM 800'ish tones), though obviously feedback is out (you can somewhat dull the pain with pinch and artificial harmonics though LOL)!. Obviouly cleaner styles have no problem etc.

It depends on what styles you're doing and how much feedback/guitar sound field coupling you need etc.
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While it’s technically true that you can find success with a silent stage, you won’t find the sustain, the feel, or the experience of “playing the room.” This is true for both clean and dirty sounds.
 
Here in Vegas it's not an option at a lot of venues...You have to play on a silent stage at many of the big gigs. Management won't allow any amps or even wedge monitors. It's all In-Ear-Monitors.
Having said that, I use really nice, fitted Ultimate Ears IEM's.
It's not the same as having a speaker onstage, but you get used to it pretty quickly. And my particular guitar sounds seem to do pretty well with sustain and "catching" some of the PA main speakers for controlled feedback as well.
Added "bonus" is that when I see video that people shoot of me playing...it sounds freakin' great hearing it coming out of the PA speakers after hearing nothing but the IEM's.
 
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Robbie Boyette said:
And my particular guitar sounds seem to do pretty well with sustain and "catching" some of the PA main speakers for controlled feedback as well.
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A semi-hollow might do well in that situation. The lack of regular acoustic coupling won't shake a solid-body guitar as it would with speakers behind you, but a semi-hollow will react and push a little more mids into the modeler giving it a bit more gain.

You have to play on a silent stage at many of the big gigs. Management won't allow any amps or even wedge monitors.
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Heh. They're probably afraid you'll drown out the sound of the slot machines. :)
 
Greg Ferguson said:
A semi-hollow might do well in that situation. The lack of regular acoustic coupling won't shake a solid-body guitar as it would with speakers behind you, but a semi-hollow will react and push a little more mids into the modeler giving it a bit more gain.


Heh. They're probably afraid you'll drown out the sound of the slot machines. :)
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I play mostly 80's hair band stuff...so no, I'm gonna stick to my Ibanez PIA for a guitar. lol
As I said...my sound kicks ass and I'm just using IEM's. Kicks a lot more ass on the occasions that I get to play venues that allow loud stage volume (like Count's Vamp'd nightclub here in Vegas).
And no, the PA is loud as hell at the casino gigs. Sounds great. So that is not even a consideration on slot machine noise. heh-heh
Check this tone and sustain. No amp onstage, just the FM3 and IEM's
 
Robbie Boyette said:
Here in Vegas it's not an option at a lot of venues...You have to play on a silent stage at many of the big gigs. Management won't allow any amps or even wedge monitors. It's all In-Ear-Monitors.
Having said that, I use really nice, fitted Ultimate Ears IEM's.
It's not the same as having a speaker onstage, but you get used to it pretty quickly. And my particular guitar sounds seem to do pretty well with sustain and "catching" some of the PA main speakers for controlled feedback as well.
Added "bonus" is that when I see video that people shoot of me playing...it sounds freakin' great hearing it coming out of the PA speakers after hearing nothing but the IEM's.
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+1 on all the points you made. It helps to have a resonant guitar, so it can make the most of whatever volume is available. Fortunately, a lot of Ibanez stuff fits that description.
 
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For those who can't find sustain using IEM's without anchoring yourself to a loud cab or monitor on stage, consider installing a Sustainer in your guitar (Sustainiac or similar).
 
Robbie Boyette said:
Here in Vegas it's not an option at a lot of venues...You have to play on a silent stage at many of the big gigs. Management won't allow any amps or even wedge monitors. It's all In-Ear-Monitors.
Having said that, I use really nice, fitted Ultimate Ears IEM's.
It's not the same as having a speaker onstage, but you get used to it pretty quickly. And my particular guitar sounds seem to do pretty well with sustain and "catching" some of the PA main speakers for controlled feedback as well.
Added "bonus" is that when I see video that people shoot of me playing...it sounds freakin' great hearing it coming out of the PA speakers after hearing nothing but the IEM's.
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One more confirmation that Vegas truly is the Devil's Den. ;)
 
I dunno, man. You went to the trouble and expense to get a Fractal and get rid of amps and speakers. Don't be so quick to carry more heavy equipment. Consider using two Aux outs from your FOH mixer and make the mix stereo. Or use the money you would spend on an FRFR to get a mixer than has enough AUX outs to send you a stereo mix. Being able to pan in your IEMs is essential to giving each instrument its own space.
There is no question that IEMs sound different and it takes a while to get used to. But you bought the Fractal because it sounds great and you can leave those speakers and amps behind.
Good luck, whatever you choose!
 
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DougB415 said:
Then get a floor monitor and EQ it correctly. Done.
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jclemensfl said:
I dunno, man. You went to the trouble and expense to get a Fractal and get rid of amps and speakers. Don't be so quick to carry more heavy equipment. Consider using two Aux outs from your FOH mixer and make the mix stereo. Or use the money you would spend on an FRFR to get a mixer than has enough AUX outs to send you a stereo mix. Being able to pan in your IEMs is essential to giving each instrument its own space.
There is no question that IEMs sound different and it takes a while to get used to. But you bought the Fractal because it sounds great and you can live those speakers and amps behind.
Good luck, whatever you choose!
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There are a lot of different ways to skin a cat. The reality of our situation is that we run our own sound and we don't have state of the art equipment or rooms. We have certainly learned over the years to EQ our setup to avoid the feedback, but in doing so we sacrifice somethings else (someone being heard in the mix to their liking, etc). I have also learned I can only turn my monitor up so much before the feedback becomes an issue and because we are playing and doing sound at the same time, we can only make minor tweaks during shows - if any.

Whether we spend money on a new board, new FOH speakers, new IEMs, or new floor monitors, we are going to spend it somewhere - we're just trying to find the solution that gives everyone the best options and experience. Based on feedback here and knowing our situation, this is the solution that works best for us right now I believe. Sure, in a perfect world we would be expert live mixers with the equipment that allowed us all the flexibility to craft a beautiful stereo mix for everyone, but that's not the case. I appreciate all the feedback - over time I'm sure I will learn to use the IEMs better for our situation or get better IEMs, but as of right now, I have found that even when I am playing by myself and I have the whole mix for my guitar alone - I am not getting the same feeling I get with pumping volume through a speaker that I can hear and feel and that is affecting my performance and how I feel when we play live. We aren't professional musicians - we are a bunch of dudes with other jobs and families - so we don't have unlimited time to tweak, practice and learn, so when we do get the chance to play out, we all need to be in a good place so that we play as well as we can. The FRFR solves my issue without affecting my bandmates who are already happy with their sound on stage and FOH. Cheers and thanks again for all the help here.
 
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Cam Heiliger said:
There are a lot of different ways to skin a cat. The reality of our situation is that we run our own sound and we don't have state of the art equipment or rooms. We have certainly learned over the years to EQ our setup to avoid the feedback, but in doing so we sacrifice somethings else (someone being heard in the mix to their liking, etc). I have also learned I can only turn my monitor up so much before the feedback becomes an issue and because we are playing and doing sound at the same time, we can only make minor tweaks during shows - if any.

Whether we spend money on a new board, new FOH speakers, new IEMs, or new floor monitors, we are going to spend it somewhere - we're just trying to find the solution that gives everyone the best options and experience. Based on feedback here and knowing our situation, this is the solution that works best for us right now I believe. Sure, in a perfect world we would be expert live mixers with the equipment that allowed us all the flexibility to craft a beautiful stereo mix for everyone, but that's not the case. I appreciate all the feedback - over time I'm sure I will learn to use the IEMs better for our situation or get better IEMs, but as of right now, I have found that even when I am playing by myself and I have the whole mix for my guitar alone - I am not getting the same feeling I get with pumping volume through a speaker that I can hear and feel and that is affecting my performance and how I feel when we play live. We aren't professional musicians - we are a bunch of dudes with other jobs and families - so we don't have unlimited time to tweak, practice and learn, so when we do get the chance to play out, we all need to be in a good place so that we play as well as we can. The FRFR solves my issue without affecting my bandmates who are already happy with their sound on stage and FOH. Cheers and thanks again for all the help here.
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#randominternetusersknowbetter
 
I’m a four amp guy. Bandmaster, AC20, ODS HRM, Corncob 50. With drive pedals and a couple effects I’ve got my 90s rock sets covered. I’ve tried to match album sounds in the past and while it can be fun to nail those sounds exactly, the audience can’t tell the difference nor do they care. Sounding good is better than sounding “right”.
 
Cam Heiliger said:
I’m a four amp guy. Bandmaster, AC20, ODS HRM, Corncob 50. With drive pedals and a couple effects I’ve got my 90s rock sets covered. I’ve tried to match album sounds in the past and while it can be fun to nail those sounds exactly, the audience can’t tell the difference nor do they care. Sounding good is better than sounding “right”.
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Absolutely.
A few times when I first did modeling back in the 1990's I tried setting up different sounds for every song.
It was so jarring to the ear.
Turned out that just having a GOOD sound is all you need. And to me a good sound is clean, rhythm, crunch, and lead.
With those 4 basic sounds you can always throw a flange or a chorus or a delay on top of them. Other than that? Nope.
 
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