Stage Monitor Feedback

P

pjrake

Inspired
It's my third time using the AxeFX live and tonight there was tons of feedback coming from the stage monitor. I plugged direct to FOH. Did not have a personal wedge, I used the stage monitors.

Every time I hit the distortion preset I heard a hiss, and if I got near it it feedback Loke crazy! Should I have switched the ground loop switch in the back of the AxeFX?

Has anyone experienced something similar?
 
feedback is only caused when the source (guitar pickups) "hears" itself. adding gain/distortion will make it happen faster, possibly louder.

the only thing to solve this is to reduce the gain, turn down the volume, or have the guitar pickups not face the speaker directly.

ground loop has nothing to do with feedback.
 
Use a noise gate in your preset or turn your gain down. Real amps do the same thing when they're loud on a stage or loud in the monitor.
 
Using the FAS Modern amp and the gain is a 12 o'clock. Didn't think it was too much gain. Can the signal have been too hot then? Maybe the trim gain on the mixer channel was too high? I did tell him that it's a line signal and its hot.

Been playing with tube amps for twenty years and used noise gate pedals, never had feedback issue.

At rehearsal I've been plugging to the studio mixer and never had feedback either. Was trying to avoid the gate block but will try it and hope that solves the problem.
 
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If the mixer trim was too hot, it will just distort the signal at the mixer, it won't cause feedback.

Feedback is caused by the perceived loudness and the source hearing itself, regardless of where any knobs or sliders are set. If that combination of knobs and sliders makes it too loud, there will happen to be feedback.

You can have feedback with a pure clean tone as well, again gain just makes it happen easier.

pjrake said:
Been playing with time amps for twenty years and used noise gate pedals, never had feedback issue.
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Over those 20 years, did you ever play with your guitar cab facing you, angled up at the guitar pickups, only a few feet away?
 
the hiss could have been some ground type issues Since you did not have his the other 3x I bet it was the venue. As far as feed back. Have you messed with the your patches at all since the other gigs? Do you get feedback with your mackie? Was there any other instruments going through that wedge? If the answer is no then I don't think you have a patch problem. I have had my monitors run so hot that my guitar would feed back of I didn't keep the angle away or keep a bit of distance. I know it was the monitor because the same patch at a more manageable through the same wedge on a different not did not feed back. I always keep things under control with my trusty volume pedals and used to make the feed back work for me in a music way and hold noted to infinity and beyond
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
If the mixer trim was too hot, it will just distort the signal at the mixer, it won't cause feedback.

Feedback is caused by the perceived loudness and the source hearing itself, regardless of where any knobs or sliders are set. If that combination of knobs and sliders makes it too loud, there will happen to be feedback.

You can have feedback with a pure clean tone as well, again gain just makes it happen easier.



Over those 20 years, did you ever play with your guitar cab facing you, angled up at the guitar pickups, only a few feet away?
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Yeah, a few times. Have you?

That's a bit rude dude, I came here looking for answers and that was not cool.

Since this is the first time I had feedback and haven't touched my patches at all, I'm trying to eliminate everything before adding a noise gate cab block. Coming from being a tube guy, I know noise gates affects tone. Was trying to avoid that.
 
brokenvail said:
the hiss could have been some ground type issues Since you did not have his the other 3x I bet it was the venue. As far as feed back. Have you messed with the your patches at all since the other gigs? Do you get feedback with your mackie? Was there any other instruments going through that wedge? If the answer is no then I don't think you have a patch problem. I have had my monitors run so hot that my guitar would feed back of I didn't keep the angle away or keep a bit of distance. I know it was the monitor because the same patch at a more manageable through the same wedge on a different not did not feed back. I always keep things under control with my trusty volume pedals and used to make the feed back work for me in a music way and hold noted to infinity and beyond
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Never got it with the Mackie and I've tested it at gig volume too.

My guess it's the venue, but will try a noise gate. Just wanted to know if somehow the line signal or gain trim might have something to do with it but Chris said no.
 
pjrake said:
Never got it with the Mackie and I've tested it at gig volume too.

My guess it's the venue, but will try a noise gate. Just wanted to know if somehow the line signal or gain trim might have something to do with it but Chris said no.
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Chris said no but I am kinda saying yes. What is saying is correct for the most part and maybe your verbiage is not right but based on your answers to my questions and my example of when I ran my wedge to hot and got feed back I would say your fine, blame it on the venue and how they feed your wedge and don't sweet it. If you experience this in other venue regularly then add the gate. When you get your CLR it will be gain staged and I won't suspect issues their either
 
pjrake said:
That's a bit rude dude, I came here looking for answers and that was not cool.
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I don't think Chris was rude at all, quite matter-of-fact IMHO...

If you have feedback thru the monitors.. it's one of 2 things...
1. as mentioned, your signal/gain is too hot going into FOH or
2. the monitors are too loud on stage

Either way, your solution is to turn down. The feedback you haven't heard with a backline amp is because the signal has to go thru YOU to get the guitar pickups. If you played with your amp facing back at you from front of stage, you'd get the same effect you are hearing thru the monitors... feedback!

Root cause of your problem is you have to turn down the source gain or the monitor level. Perhaps the bands stage volume is simply too loud.

PS: It is possible to NOTCH out the offending frequencies (if your sound guy knows what they are doing) with a 31-band EQ, but many players think the end result sounds like poo. Becomes problematic when you have vocals, keys, guitar, etc all running thur the monitor. Notching will probably lose something you want to hear.. but it SHOULD stop the feedback.
 
pjrake said:
Yeah, a few times. Have you?

That's a bit rude dude, I came here looking for answers and that was not cool.

Since this is the first time I had feedback and haven't touched my patches at all, I'm trying to eliminate everything before adding a noise gate cab block. Coming from being a tube guy, I know noise gates affects tone. Was trying to avoid that.
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Hey brother. I don't think this was meant to be a sarcastic statement. Chris has been very helpful for many of us. Remember that things don't always come across how they were intended. I think he is just trying to help.

I have had feedback from the monitor because the trim was too high causing my signal to be too hot. And yes the monitor was bouncing right off my pickups. When he turned down the trim.....wala feedback gone
 
A quick question: you didn't happen to use a new guitar at that gig or new pickups? I ask because me and a friend were trying different presets together on my Axe. We changed from his to my guitar. His guitar would feedback like crazy on many presets that were not high gain. Kind of Angus Young crunch. I used single coils and had a very low noise floor and no feedback and his guitar had P90s. Ok I know p90s are hotter than my single coils but still.
 
My question was simply, have you ever played with your amp/guitar cab facing you a few feet away angled up towards the guitar pickups at the same volume?

It's a yes or no question. I don't know how else to ask that. :(

If the position of knobs created a situation where it was too loud and caused feedback, then it was simply too loud and caused feedback. How much gain entered the mixer doesn't matter. Even with too little gain entering the mixer's preamp, the level coming out of the speaker can be too loud and create feedback.

I think I need to take a break from this forum. I ask straight-forward questions and get misconstrued as being sarcastic. I state facts about physics and electronics and get pinned as a know-it-all. Oh well. See ya'll in a few.
 
Thank you all for your replies, I really appreciate it. Even Chris, I thank you. You took the time to respond and I appreciate that. I know you're an expert around here; I even saw your video on how to set up the mixer and used that when setting our stuff at rehearsal.

Live, you're at the mercy of the soundguy, and in all three instances, none of them ever heard of the AxeFx. I think tonight (or last night), was a case of the signal being too hot (on his end, 'cause my output was at 11 o'clock, AND the monitor being way too loud!). We even tried telling him to lower it. Don't know if he did or not. It's difficult for an original modern rock band who's sharing the stage with three or four other bands and your time is limited to really get this right.

So I think the best solution for me would be to use a DI box (which I bought just in case I run into a soundguy who rather use the "guitar mic" cable and not be bothered; which was the case at my first gig with the Axe), and use that. If the soundguy has heard of the Axe and knows how to dial it in, then we can skip the DI box. Second, once I get the CLR, I'll tell the soundguy to take me out of the monitor completely, and I'll monitor my own volume with the CLR.

Again, thanks all for your advice.
 
Chris@KatsuKuriMedia said:
It's a yes or no question. I don't know how else to ask that. :(
.
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FWIW, I took what you posted as made in good faith.

With no offence to the OP, often times a lack of understanding or knowledge of audio concepts, and the theory behind them, such as gain structure, for example, is the cause of (some) issues with the Axe, and not the Axe itself.

I've been thinking of late that a problem with easy access to the masses of an affordable gizmo that can do so much, such as the Axe, unfortunately bypasses for the user the study and research that one used to have to do "in the old days". Gain structure, signal to noise, acoustic properties of environments, production of sound vs reproduction of sound, EQ, the F-M curve etc etc.

It's not the fault of the Axe or Cliff or anyone else, but in these days of the "magic box", I lament the general lack of study and knowledge of audio theory.

But maybe it's just me having come up through that old school stuff, where one had to know the mechanics behind audio to get ahead.

All meant with good intentions.

Cheers,
Mo.
 
I have had some guitars that feedback through wedges when I think they should be okay, sound right with an amp, etc.

Check the pickups they might be microphonic. I would recommend getting them potted. That solves issues like the one described most of the time.
 
barhrecords said:
I have had some guitars that feedback through wedges when I think they should be okay, sound right with an amp, etc.

Check the pickups they might be microphonic. I would recommend getting them potted. That solves issues like the one described most of the time.
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Thanks dude. I'm using Bare Knuckles Painkiller pups right now. Never had an issue with tube amps, but this is a whole new ballgame. I'll have the guitar guy that installed them take a look at it.
 
I can understand you wanting to avoid a noise gate coming from using a tube set up but don't be afraid of it on the axe. It won't do a single thing to your tone. Theres basically already an input gate on every patch anyway, you just have to turn it up to make it work. Page over to IN/GTE and adjust to your preferences. You can easily set it just low enough to cut out the noises you don't want and make it seem like its not there at all.

Also, are you using a drive pedal with the FAS Modern? Because that amp with the gain at noon plus a drive pedal is a pretty decent amount of gain. I use a T808 OD with the FAS and similar amps and with my gain only around 10 o'clock I can get some pretty bad feedback at stage volume through my Mackie.
 
You were probably getting magnetic feedback. This happens with stage monitors more than regular guitar cabs if you are too close. The feedback is from the monitors tweeter motor into the pickups. Relying on stage monitors is, IMO, a prescription for disaster. Use your own monitoring.
 
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