SPDIF vs ANALOG out MAIN1 level varies

Monchito

Monchito

Member
Hello,

after reading some articles here I decided to try and record my AX8 directly via SPDIF. After some reading I have decided to post in relation to that:

Do you guys experience any variation in level between the SPDIF and the Analog? I know SPDIF is supposed to emulate the signal from MAIN1 all the same but in my Saffire 6i6 I can clearly see a difference between them. One is hitting -2.6dB and the other is at -7dB.

I setup my patches with the analog out to "tickle the red" input on the Saffire. In Ableton with a Gain of -12 on the recording track I was getting nice definition with enough headroom to mix my song ideas.

With the SPDIF there is a noticeable volume drop on the track. Can anybody explain this? Am I doing something wrong?

Thanks!
 
I have wondered the same thing. My output when using spdif is usually up well over half because it is quite low. It must be normal since it sounds like we both are experiencing similar results.
 
Brian Dixon said:
I have wondered the same thing. My output when using spdif is usually up well over half because it is quite low. It must be normal since it sounds like we both are experiencing similar results.
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I guess so. I am also confused because at the same time I discovered this I realized my front indicators not he Saffire 6i6 are in the green/safe and so are all meters in the DAW and yet the mix control app shows clipping in the mix output from the DAW. I am scratching my head wondering what this all means because I hear no audible clipping, no artifacts... nothing that affects the recording. That and the different levels between analog and digital for what is supposed to be the same MAIN output has me wondering what's up.
 
My understanding is the SPDIF Output on the AX8 is in fact tied to the Output1 control on the front of the unit -- turning the Output1 control actually does affect the volume of the Digital signal output too.

So if you are recording from AX8 via SPDIF, turn the Output1 knob up all the way -- and in fact you should set up your presets that way. If your own presets you made clip your DAW then (via DIGITAL), then turn the level down on those rather than the Output 1 knob.

If you play the AX8 factory patches through the SPDIF out into a DAW, the level on your faders (if set to POST fader, not PRE) will come out to about -12db (average, humbuckers) for the SPDIF output level provided the Output1 knob is dimed clockwise to max/full up. That's fine for recording signal.

It's different for the AXE-FX XL -- the SPDIF output level is NOT affected by the front Output1 knob. To make the XLRE ouput equal to the SPDIF output on ane Axe-Fx, set your Output 1 knob to noon -- that is in essence "unity gain."

Let me know if you find differently. Hope this helps.
 
austinbuddy said:
My understanding is the SPDIF Output on the AX8 is in fact tied to the Output1 control on the front of the unit -- turning the Output1 control actually does affect the volume of the Digital signal output too.

So if you are recording from AX8 via SPDIF, turn the Output1 knob up all the way -- and in fact you should set up your presets that way. If your own presets you made clip your DAW then (via DIGITAL), then turn the level down on those rather than the Output 1 knob.

If you play the AX8 factory patches through the SPDIF out into a DAW, the level on your faders (if set to POST fader, not PRE) will come out to about -12db (average, humbuckers) for the SPDIF output level provided the Output1 knob is dimed clockwise to max/full up. That's fine for recording signal.

It's different for the AXE-FX XL -- the SPDIF output level is NOT affected by the front Output1 knob. To make the XLRE ouput equal to the SPDIF output on ane Axe-Fx, set your Output 1 knob to noon -- that is in essence "unity gain."

Let me know if you find differently. Hope this helps.
Click to expand...

Sorry for the late reply. It took some time between work and some troubleshooting on my setup to get back. SPDIF according to the manual is definitely tied to Output 1. I can confirm that because I get signal on separate tracks/faders in Mix Control, one coming from he SPDIF and one coming from an analog in. The information in both is the same (tone from he AX8) but the SPDIF is notably lower while the analog is louder. Have the output 1 knob turned all the way up.

The factory patches do indeed come in at about -12dB but not when using the SPDIF. The Recto Vintage patch for example hits just at -12dB monitoring/recording output 1 into analog 1 in my interface. But the SPDIF comes in at -17 or 18dB. This is measured in the DAW with faders set to POST. So not sure what needs adjusting.

Brian Dixon said:
Not sure why the Daw would be clipping unless you got a plug-in or volume boost in the Daw. What Daw are you using?
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I am using Ableton. I used to do most stuff in the box. Using Amplitube and now I am having trouble figuring out what to do with the AX8. As a rule I had always recorded my guitar ideas with a -12dB gain on the designated track. But I was using amplitude on a DI signal. now with the way the patches are set up in AX8 that's probably no longer necessary. And yet, the Master goes into red as soon as I add drums or bass to my guitar track. I thought you record all your tracks, including drums with about -12dB each (for headroom), mix to taste and then master. But I am still learning and probably making some mistakes with how I set up my rig.

On the ax8 I never go past the green no matter how hard I strum. I have to really try to get into the yellow. But never got into the red.

When you record your AX8 do you record the tone with he default -12dB as it comes from the device? Or do you do something else? I am trying to get just drive, amp and cab recorded onto a track so I can eq and maybe compress inside the DAW. And my plan is to have a separate track with my reverb and delay to send some of the signal through that.

Hope I am using the right terminology and what I say makes some sense. When I see people dialing in tones on youtube for example I am surprised how defined, punchy and loud they sound... on my end everything is a bit more contained. If that makes sense. I have a Rectifier, Rockerverb and a Marshall 800 tone that sound really nice and present to me but otherwise the stuff I am getting gets lost in the mix as soon as drums or bass come in.

Thanks!
 
The difference seen between SPDIF & analog input level will depend on the interface's input sensitivity. It's not something to be too concerned about. Adjust AX8 level get the desired input level at whichever input you're recording.
 
Also, are you using the line inputs or the front inputs on the Scarlett 6i6?

You should not tickle the red on your interface. The AX8 is special that it has 6 variations of red before actual input clipping occurs. On the scarlett, you have input clipping every time, it gets in the red.
 
I think he is clipping in the Daw after adding other instruments. Every instrument does add a certain amount of db so if all the faders are at 0 you probably need to start mixing with all faders at least -6 down. Even if every instrument is not clipping it's own track doesn't mean collectively it wouldn't be clipping the master fader. I'm not a audio expert by no means but just try pulling all the faders down a bit. I use pro tools but it should be the same rules.
 
Smittefar said:
Also, are you using the line inputs or the front inputs on the Scarlett 6i6?

You should not tickle the red on your interface. The AX8 is special that it has 6 variations of red before actual input clipping occurs. On the scarlett, you have input clipping every time, it gets in the red.
Click to expand...

I am using the front inputs on the Scarlett for Output 1 TRS and the SPDIF in the back for the SPDIF. On my AX8 all I can see with volume to max on my guitar and strumming hard is GREEN. I seldom go into Orange. On the Scarlett I have the input at the front set to hit green and I dialed it back a little because palm mutes triggered red. For all patches after I have tweaked the lows where I had undesired peaks that would send the front input on the Scarlett into clipping.

Should I see other color son the AX8? I thought I was set up just right from factory but maybe I am too low? Doesn't look like it though. Stuff sounds pretty good.

Brian Dixon said:
I think he is clipping in the Daw after adding other instruments. Every instrument does add a certain amount of db so if all the faders are at 0 you probably need to start mixing with all faders at least -6 down. Even if every instrument is not clipping it's own track doesn't mean collectively it wouldn't be clipping the master fader. I'm not a audio expert by no means but just try pulling all the faders down a bit. I use pro tools but it should be the same rules.
Click to expand...

That might be it. At least in the DAW. I have to look into Mix control to see if I am monitoring the DAW there as well, then that'd mean it's my mix. What I find strange is that all my tracks are set to gain -12dB so in theory I should have enough headroom.
 
On your AX8, you can experiment with a lower input PAD setting, but from your description, I would say, your current settings is good.

It sounds like you set your recording levels on your Scarlett a bit hot. Usually, it is adviced to peak around -12 dB or even at -18 dB - The peak level does not change the sound, but at these levels, there is a lot of headroom that can manage an unusually large spike.

As you have found, the front panel gain knob on your Scarlett changes your recording level, so it is not so surprising that you get different levels, when you go SPDIF vs. analog input.
 
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