Sovtek Big Muff settings, anyone?

So, what if we could 'roll down' a 'virtual' resistor value (parameter) at the front end of the virtual fuzz pedal?
Is this possible?
Modeling this impedance mismatch is possible, right?, just one more node in a complex model?
The impedance could be assigned to a controller to vary it. Just a though.
 
So, what if we could 'roll down' a 'virtual' resistor value (parameter) at the front end of the virtual fuzz pedal?
Is this possible?
Modeling this impedance mismatch is possible, right?, just one more node in a complex model?
The impedance could be assigned to a controller to vary it. Just a though.

I think it could be modeled, just like some parameters I’d also like which could emulate voltage starving a transistor, different transistor types, different caps etc. just might be a lot of work and cpu. Maybe depends how big of audience there is for crazy fuzz tones, and also I think a lot of that audience kind of enjoys having the actual pedals. I know I am enjoying a bit of DIY fuzz pedals, so I can build stuff to get certain “Velcro” tones, saxophone tones etc. would be cool to get it in the Axe, but then I wouldn’t have an excuse to solder my own lol
 
I think it could be modeled, just like some parameters I’d also like which could emulate voltage starving a transistor, different transistor types, different caps etc. just might be a lot of work and cpu. Maybe depends how big of audience there is for crazy fuzz tones, and also I think a lot of that audience kind of enjoys having the actual pedals. I know I am enjoying a bit of DIY fuzz pedals, so I can build stuff to get certain “Velcro” tones, saxophone tones etc. would be cool to get it in the Axe, but then I wouldn’t have an excuse to solder my own lol

Ya, I guess there are lots of player wishes to juggle. Not so sure about high CPU usage, but now with the III there appears to be plenty of room for more advanced pedal modelling if it's warranted. Real pedals are great, just as real amps are great, but there may be challenges with pedals, or other reasons like tube amp modelling, and linear effects takes priority.
 
Ya, I guess there are lots of player wishes to juggle. Not so sure about high CPU usage, but now with the III there appears to be plenty of room for more advanced pedal modelling if it's warranted. Real pedals are great, just as real amps are great, but there may be challenges with pedals, or other reasons like tube amp modelling, and linear effects takes priority.

Big part of why certain fuzz sounds and behaves like it does is the interaction with the passive guitar electronics. I think that could be modeled, but don’t think there is a way for the modeling engine to really “see” the pickups, so I don’t think you could simply roll back the volume and get a propper response. But you could change some parameters with soemthing like an expression pedal and likely get an authentic style of cleanup, if the modeling engine could take into account some programmed variables like how the inductance changes.

I could see people liking that as it’s more tones to work with, but I could also see people not wanting to change a scene, move a pedal etc, and want that intimate behavior from slightly touching their volume pot while playing.

Will be interesting in say 2020 to see what the drive block looks like and what new stuff we’ve got. I’m sure it will continue to improve and evolve significantly
 
Hi
I sure hope the new drive modeling will have something to take into account the way fuzz faces interact with the passive guitar electronics into an amp, even if it is a some block in front of the fuzz on Axe Fx. I just can't get that guitar vol roll off uniqueness with Ax8/III fuzzes. I'll use them for convenience, but I usually run some pedals on floor into the Axe Fx. Gtr-wah-vibe-fuzz-Axe. And different fuzz faces do roll off a little different, but Axe Fx not there yet. It is kind of nice to plug into wah where I'm standing and have cable out of fuzz to AxeFx, that part is nice.
 
The fuzzes in the AFXIII are simply not of the caliber of the amp modeling. Cliff has also publicly stated that he isn’t really a fuzz/drive/OF guy.
I think it shows.
Attributing any disappointment or lack of performance to the buffer is grasping at straws. I don’t believe that the same care that has been given to the amps was given to each fuzz and drive.

Try putting your favorite fuzz into the FX Loop (thereby post-buffer) and then matching it. Tough work and one must resort to Tone-Matching at least.
 
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The fuzzes are simply not of the caliber of the amp modeling. Cliff has also publicly stated that he isn’t really a fuzz/drive/OF guy.
I think it shows.
Attributing any disappointment or lack of performance to the buffer is grasping at straws. I don’t believe that the same care that has been given to the amps was given to each fuzz and drive.
Sorry, I can't agree with that.

The Fuzz in the Axe-Fx reacts as though there is a buffer in front of it (because there is). It's a limitation inherent to all modeling products. I modeled it using a nominal source resistance. I forget what I used for the source resistance but it was probably around 100K ohms. As you said to really simulate it you would need a controller to simulate the changing output impedance of the guitar.


Try putting your favorite fuzz into the FX Loop (thereby post-buffer) and then matching it.
Even in the effects loop, your fuzz is still feeding a buffer before the signal gets back onto the AX8's grid.
 
Even in the effects loop, your fuzz is still feeding a buffer before the signal gets back onto the AX8's grid.

The point being that, even when a real fuzz or Muff is influenced by the same buffer, the real pedal will not be able to recreated by the AX. It is also probable that the real deal will sound superior and appear to be less of a static snapshot than the models presented.
A/B your best effort with an AX model vs a real Muff or Fuzz Face that is n the loop. It’s not a small thing.

Also, do you not agree with the statement that Cliff asserted on this forum that he isn’t a drive kinda guy? With what are you disagreeing? What are you hoping to offer in the discussion beyond disagreement?
 
The point being that, even when a real fuzz or Muff is influenced by the same buffer, the real pedal will not be able to recreated by the AX. It is also probable that the real deal will sound superior and appear to be less of a static snapshot than the models presented.
A/B your best effort with an AX model vs a real Muff or Fuzz Face that is n the loop. It’s not a small thing.

Also, do you not agree with the statement that Cliff asserted on this forum that he isn’t a drive kinda guy? With what are you disagreeing? What are you hoping to offer in the discussion beyond disagreement?
Interesting experiment. I'd have to get a fuzz pedal to try it (it's been years since I owned one). You've done this?
 
Interesting experiment. I'd have to get a fuzz pedal to try it (it's been years since I owned one). You've done this?
Yes.
Prescription Electronics Experience pedal
Vintage IC Op-Amp Big Muff (the Corgan type)
Vintage Ram's Head Big Muff Pi http://www.kitrae.net/music/big_muff_history1.html#RamsHead
First generation Little Big Muff Pi with the blue font https://reverb.com/item/1433322-vin...rs-rams-head-big-muff-graphics-fuzz-overdrive
off of the top of my head. There have been others.

The best match that I got was the Experience Pedal with Octave on and one with Octave off. It required Tone Matching.

To be clear: excellent tones are available in the Axe-FX II. I find the amps & cabs to be the focus of the product and to be excellent. The drives and fuzzes don't reach the standard. They're still 'good'.
 
Certain fuzz pedals require the interaction with the guitar electronics to produce their characteristic results. A really quirky fuzz like a Fuzz Factory, with its controls for stability, gating, etc interacts with the guitar in unique ways and you can do fun stuff like tune the self oscillation with your tone knob. You don’t get those results with a buffer, and it’s probably not possible to model that either as your still going to have a buffer before the modeled circuit.

Other fuzz pedals sound different behind a buffer, but in a subjectively good way. I hands down like how my Buffalo Fx Patriot, a civil war muff, sounds with a buffer before it, such as a Boss pedal like the CS2. Changes how it responds, just like how a tube screamer or Blues Driver etc change how it sounds stacked.

Tube screamer with a Rat ? Cool boosted tones, and sadly two drive blocks don’t easily lend themselves to matching what is easy with two real pedals, though you can still have success stacking drives in the Axe.

Really though, if you are one of those folks who really love fuzz, your probably going to still want your collection of pedals. People who love germanium fuzz might own an analog man nkt275 white dot, a RCA, a Mullard oc44 etc, even though those are all the same circuit using different transitors. People who really love those things appreciate the different breakup etc, and it’s unlikely a model is going to satisfy, as part of it is probably just the emotional connection one may have with a collection of pedals on a shelf, especially fuzz, with the unique artwork, rare NOS parts that give bragging rights etc.

I think fuzz pedals are often as much about the collectibility as they are the tone. Pedals, while not cheap, are somewhat affordable, don’t take a bunch of space either. Most of us can’t really have a vintage amp collection, due to space, cost etc, but a shelf of fuzz pedals is a viable option.

Even if the Axe could perfectly model some of mine I think I’d still keep them. Some I built myself, some I’ve owned for decades, and I just kind of like plugging into a piece of hardware.

I don’t know, guess it makes me feel it makes my rig a little unique. If I was 100% in the box, then anyone else could match what I can do, and I’d be just another dude playing Axe into CLR. Great rig, but kind of generic too, know what I mean ?

Having some unique pedals in my chain, such as a really voltage starved Basic Audio Zippy, gives me tones I don’t think you can produce from the Axe, at least right now, and that is kind of cool, because people might hear a tone and think “what is that, how did he make that sound” and it’s a combination of a really weird fuzz circuit running into a great modeler with an advanced harmonizer and some sweet Plex delay. The Axe is a big part, but so is that few bucks of old parts wired up in a unique way. This is what makes pedals still pretty cool in my book
 
Well put lqdsnddist, I have my fuzzfaces I'll be keeping (still may thin out in future) and a few other styles that I decided on. I may try the fuzz in a loop (more cables), which will be new for me try out period. It will allow me to place fuzz after vibe in AxeFx if I'm using it. So far I'm basic user type, just a line of pedals in Ax like on floor. Kent, I have one of those Prescription Experiences also and I'm not reminded to break it out for some play time.
 
....Recently I tried to copy the sound of my friend's Cornish P1 and pretty much nailed it. Here the settings:
High cut: 7900 Hz
Clip type: variable
Clip shape: 2.20
Mid frequency: 1350 Hz
Mids: +2dB
Slew rate: 1.35
Bias: 0.500
Other parameters to taste or default
OK.... thanks!
But You din't say what kind of block....
Pi Fuzz? Master Fuzz? Hard Fuzz? Face Fuzz?

thanks... @DLC86
 
I'm not sure if it's the same on the AX8, but on the AxeFx you can change the input impedance in the input block. Set to 90k and not Auto helps a little with the fuzz cleaning up which I believe is posted in the Wiki from Austin Buddy. You could also attach an envelope modifier to the Drive control to clean it up rolling your guitar volume down or playing softer. Not exactly the same, but a decent solution.
 
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