Soundcraft is hiding a design flaw in Signature MTK22 mixer

I had a model 12 and it was really cool for what it was, but it was rather limiting as it had only 6 mono channels and 2 stereo channels. Also had only 2 aux sends and you need to use channels for returns so it’s pretty limiting in terms of channels.

what is cool is you can record each channel to the SD card, and unlike most anything else on the market, it had midi so you can sync drum machines etc and have your multiple tracks synced for overdubbing. Sadly can’t be a slave though, only master.

also unique is it can record pre or post eq, comp etc, unlike the MTK which takes the usb input from the input of the mixer. I personally don’t mind this as I don’t want to record my eq etc, as I’d rather play those back via usb return and eq stuff in the context of the overall mix. Still nice to have the flexibility though.
If they could make a 16 or 24 channel with the features of the 12 it would be pretty killer, but as it stands, the 12 is just a bit limiting in terms of channel count if your using stereo inputs, external effects etc.

probably great for singer songwriter type stuff, but I use a lot of synths and outboard effects, so I want lots of routing and also spare channels so I can have stereo returns for everything. Love the mkt22 for this since you can have like 14 mono input and then use 3 stereo channels for effects return, or playback of tracks from the computer over usb etc

Model 12 is pretty cool though. Hopefully more new stuff comes along based on some of its features and ability to work dawless
Thanks for your thoughts. Much appreciated.
 
So I just got the signature 16. Not MTK. I noticed this too. I thought I was crazy for not seeing a power up/down switch. I thought it was extremely odd that a powered piece of gear doesn't have a power button. So I've been unplugging it which isn't the hardest thing to do but just silly given I've never owned any pro audio I have had to unplug and plug in to turn on/off. Good to know about the over heating issue. My guess is every couple hours if you're working it hard to power down for maybe 30 minutes?
I guarantee you the reason why that guy was being so cocky and smug with you is because they probably get phone calls about that issue every day all day. And he avoided giving you his honest opinion or an actual answer because then if it happens again you can hold them accountable and they'll have to replace it so in a way he was avoiding giving you an answer to avoid being held accountable if the information he gave you ended up causing yet another USB port to fail. Total BS.
I'm planning on getting the Warm Audio Tone Beast to run as a pre for the mixer and it'll act as the power on off as well.
Sorry this happened to you man. It really is a solid unit but man how can you MISS THAT when your only job is to design and build MIXING CONSOLES??? HAHA wow!
 
I guarantee you the reason why that guy was being so cocky and smug with you is because they probably get phone calls about that issue every day all day. And he avoided giving you his honest opinion or an actual answer because then if it happens again you can hold them accountable and they'll have to replace it
They'd far more likely replace him than the power supply.
 
Unfortunately the "switch" thing is getting viral: I checked the new SSL controllers for DAW and I decided to stay with Avid Artist MIX and Transport since the SSL has no switches to turn the unit on/off. Advice from SSL: remove the power cables OR use an external switch... no words... On my SSL Origin there's a switch BUT... it's in the worst position you could choose (center of the back panel.... when you wired it it's almost impossible to reach
 
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Hi again Scott,
You are wise and sharing :)
If I may make a suggestion, look at a Midas m32. There must be a new model coming out soon as they are often discounted. I recently swapped my x32 for an m32 and could not be happier.
Thanks
Pauly

Hi Pauly,

I agree that life is good and I am moving on. My intention is to share my experience so that other's are not bitten the same way that I was.

Best,
Scott
 
Had the exact same issue. Just managed to get it fixed privately. I would recommend buying a smart wifi plug. Can easily switch it off using phone, plus set it to automatically switch off if forgotten. Really they should have made an on/off button for it. Apart from that one issue, I think the mixer is outstanding.
 
What really ticked me off was the way that the tech tried to shame me for not plugging the mixer into a power strip so that I could use the power strip on/off switch in place of having one built in to the mixer. He said that "everyone" knows to plugin to a power strip to use the power switch on the strip if there isn't one on the device. Their customer service was bottom of the barrel poor.

@Mindset - that's a good idea, using a smart wifi plug. What brand/model do you use?

It took me months for the repair shop to get a replacement power supply. I essentially wrote it off and bought a used Behringer X32 digital board. Got it for $1200 in pristine condition from a church that bought a regular analog board because the X32 was too complicated. Still have the MTK22, but it's gathering dust at the moment.
 
What really ticked me off was the way that the tech tried to shame me for not plugging the mixer into a power strip so that I could use the power strip on/off switch in place of having one built in to the mixer. He said that "everyone" knows to plugin to a power strip to use the power switch on the strip if there isn't one on the device. Their customer service was bottom of the barrel poor.

@Mindset - that's a good idea, using a smart wifi plug. What brand/model do you use?

It took me months for the repair shop to get a replacement power supply. I essentially wrote it off and bought a used Behringer X32 digital board. Got it for $1200 in pristine condition from a church that bought a regular analog board because the X32 was too complicated. Still have the MTK22, but it's gathering dust at the moment.
I had a spare Teckin plug. Got it from amazon. That's annoying, I didn't use their support either as their turnaround time was ridiculous, and they had no care. Rather my money go to someone who respects customer service. Shame really as it's a decent bit of kit.
 
I agree that the feature set is great. My complaint is that:

1. A fundamental operational issue is not documented anywhere by the manufacturer.

2. The design of the equipment does not support the required operation (there is no power switch) and even implies that it's okay to leave the equipment on.

3. When I attempted to discuss this with Soundcraft tech support they were defensive, blaming, and evasive by not answering my questions

4. No verbal or written instructions on what they consider safe operational parameters - "you may leave this mixer powered on for "X hours" before risking damage

5. Their tech support treated me as if I made the mistake because I did not follow their undocumented requirements necessary to avoid damage

6. Their technician's customer support was abhorrent - condescending, evasive, no attempt to provide compromise or make the customer happy

But I do agree that the feature set is great. That's a primary reason that I bought it in the first place.
You should have escalated to a manager. Sounds cliché, but the low level folks don't have many options to make you happy, and likely no clear path to raise your issue to the product team.

I had a bad CS issue recently trying to return an item at a big box store that was purchased through Instacart. There was no receipt and the returns person couldn't find the order in the computer. He asked a "manager" who told him to tell me I had to go through Instacart. ??? Didn't you guys get paid for the item? I wondered aloud... after a bit of back-and-forth, I said: that can't be the process, it makes no sense. I want you to try harder and if that means getting your manager, let's do that.

Manager came out and I had my refund 60-seconds later. And the first person learned a bit about their system and what it looks/feels like to escalate an issue.
 
Unfortunately the "switch" thing is getting viral: I checked the new SSL controllers for DAW and I decided to stay with Avid Artist MIX and Transport since the SSL has no switches to turn the unit on/off. Advice from SSL: remove the power cables OR use an external switch... no words... On my SSL Origin there's a switch BUT... it's in the worst position you could choose (center of the back panel.... when you wired it it's almost impossible to reach
Yeah, my SSL AWS 948 has a power switch... somewhere... I just use an external switch on the power strip mounted in the patch bay.

I get your frustration with the lack of confirming documentation. But, I kinda agree with the sentiment around you being able to solve the problem yourself easily with a power strip or some such.

I wonder if the manual for my refrigerator mentions to keep the door closed for optimal operation. If it doesn't, should I keep the door open until it fails out of spite? Sounds like bullets to the foot, to me...
 
It took me months for the repair shop to get a replacement power supply. I essentially wrote it off and bought a used Behringer X32 digital board. Got it for $1200 in pristine condition from a church that bought a regular analog board because the X32 was too complicated. Still have the MTK22, but it's gathering dust at the moment.
There is a good chance you will not find anyone to service the X32 in the US ..if it has problems down the road.

That service center sucks for giving you a hard time about soundcraft's design shortcuts.
 
Yeah, my SSL AWS 948 has a power switch... somewhere... I just use an external switch on the power strip mounted in the patch bay.

I get your frustration with the lack of confirming documentation. But, I kinda agree with the sentiment around you being able to solve the problem yourself easily with a power strip or some such.

I wonder if the manual for my refrigerator mentions to keep the door closed for optimal operation. If it doesn't, should I keep the door open until it fails out of spite? Sounds like bullets to the foot, to me...
I'd agree with you IF something in the docs said you can't leave it on, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I think the assumption is that if a piece gear needs to be treated a certain way to keep it from failing, the maker will tell you. Saying nothing about that is just dumb. Hurts users, hurts the brand, just really really dumb.
 
There is a good chance you will not find anyone to service the X32 in the US ..if it has problems down the road.

That service center sucks for giving you a hard time about soundcraft's design shortcuts.
Yes, their customer service sucks. Harmon-Kardon, who now owns SoundCraft, also has pretty poor service. Do my best to never buy their products.

I have a local shop that can handle an X32. It was less than a year old when I bought it, so with any luck it won't need to be repaired for years to come.
 
I'd agree with you IF something in the docs said you can't leave it on, but that doesn't seem to be the case.

I think the assumption is that if a piece gear needs to be treated a certain way to keep it from failing, the maker will tell you. Saying nothing about that is just dumb. Hurts users, hurts the brand, just really really dumb.
I agree that the omission is bad. However, it shouldn't prevent a user from taking common-sense countermeasures.

And, what are the parameters that would have to be documented? I'm sure not every board overheats. Maybe I crave a cool room at 68-degrees and have it sitting on a perforated surface. Lots of variables. Is your room hot? How many Cubic Feet of air is exchanged per hour in your room? Humidity? Etc. etc. etc.

It would be nice if it tripped a sensor and powered down versus blowing up. Sounds like a manual drive muscle car - you can blow the engine if you try hard enough.

Anyway, I mostly agree with you - it's a sucky situation that blindsided you. I guess you either need to find a workaround, or get different gear.
 
My main complaint was the way that the service tech behaved. He acted like a dick. Condescension and shaming do not make a loyal customer base. And it isn't necessary to behave that way. I just choose to take my business elsewhere.

I think that if SoundCraft chooses not to install a power switch then it is incumbent upon them to provide a clear explanation in the manual or online (both would be the best thing to do) explaining that the power supply will fail if the unit is left on 24/7. They didn't bother to provide any notice about this.

I have other gear that I leave on. I've also participated in online threads (actually there was a thread about this on the Fractal Forum) where engineers debated whether electronics fail more quickly if they are turned off/on or if left on indefinitely. Cliff Chase himself has discussed this topic with regards to the AxeFXIII and indicated that leaving it on is no big deal. So if there is a component that is going to fail and there is no switch built into the unit then just tell people this is the case. Then it's on me if I damage the unit because I don't power it off. But they didn't and don't tell anyone. At least not the last time I checked. So, lesson learned. Don't buy SoundCraft gear because there is no guarantee that the manual is forthcoming how to compensate for their poor engineering. On the other hand, it's a great company to buy from if you like being treated like a 2nd class idiot by a snooty holier-than-thou technician.
 
Yeah, my SSL AWS 948 has a power switch... somewhere... I just use an external switch on the power strip mounted in the patch bay.

I get your frustration with the lack of confirming documentation. But, I kinda agree with the sentiment around you being able to solve the problem yourself easily with a power strip or some such.

I wonder if the manual for my refrigerator mentions to keep the door closed for optimal operation. If it doesn't, should I keep the door open until it fails out of spite? Sounds like bullets to the foot, to me...
Thanks man you made my day! :tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy::tearsofjoy: I have to check my refrigerator now....
In my studio every circuit (light, monitor, PC, outboard, FAS units) has its own switch and everything is powered by two Furman P-6900 AR E so it wasn't a problem to add a switch. What I was saying (a long time ago) is that if you write a manual (and I translate manuals for FAS units for g66) has to be clear about products features. But it was just my opinion...
 
I'm sure not every board overheats. Maybe I crave a cool room at 68-degrees and have it sitting on a perforated surface. Lots of variables. Is your room hot? How many Cubic Feet of air is exchanged per hour in your room? Humidity? Etc. etc. etc.

It would be nice if it tripped a sensor and powered down versus blowing up. Sounds like a manual drive muscle car - you can blow the engine if you try hard enough.

Anyway, I mostly agree with you - it's a sucky situation that blindsided you. I guess you either need to find a workaround, or get different gear.
I have MTK12, run hot as well (over 40° above the surface with room at 12°). I suspect the power unit is the same, so MTK22 suffer even more. Definitly a flaw design... I run it in small session (1-2 hours). The longer the session, the hotter the surface. It's like the mixer was under direct sunlight in summer days, you have to be careful where you touch... :)
 
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