Sound engineer has issues with AXE--suggestions?

I'm sorry. I really don't mean to bash engineers, but I've never understood why a few of these guys feel they can dictate what tools the band uses. If they got hired by a major Broadway production, and one of the sources they had to deal was an Axe FX, they would Shut The F#%k Up and make it work. To have a visceral reaction, without an understanding of what the device is or even trying it, is an embarrassment to the majority of sound engineers who strive to be as knowledgeable as possible about all of the professional-level gear on the market. These arrogant few deserve to be thrashed.
 
I think that one of the issues here is not that the sound guys are assholes, but that nothing in their years of professional experience has prepared them for the Axe-FX. From their point of view, maybe direct truly never has worked.

If instead, you asked “have you seen one of these before?” and ask them to check it out with you, and give it a chance… maybe the scales will fall from their eyes (wrong metaphor) just like they have for us.
 
randyman said:
I think that one of the issues here is not that the sound guys are assholes, but that nothing in their years of professional experience has prepared them for the Axe-FX. From their point of view, maybe direct truly never has worked.

If instead, you asked “have you seen one of these before?” and ask them to check it out with you, and give it a chance… maybe the scales will fall from their eyes (wrong metaphor) just like they have for us.
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Agreed. But, if you ask them if they've ever seen an Axe FX, and they say "No", and they still tell you that it's wrong to run direct, or they won't entertain a discussion on the topic at all, don't they then qualify as assholes?
 
Maybe, depending on their attitude about the whole situation. But, really, how is he an asshole if he doesn't want to start experimenting with equipment he's unfamiliar with when he's going live in a few hours? What's he gonna do if something goes tits-up in the middle of the show, and he needs to make a rapid recovery? Better to be comfortable with your tools and resources before you start a job.

Even here, where many, if not most of the frequent flyers are seasoned players and fractal users, you won't see people updating their Axe Fx or MFC firmware without having a serious block of time that's usually measured in days before they're going to have to expose the gear again.

Playing live is already enough of a catastrophe magnet without tossing additional variables and unknowns into the mix.
 
tallcoolone said:
Ok, but the second half of his rant came after I let him know that I would be providing my own stage monitor. He went on to suggest I bring one of my 100w amps and "turn it down real low" rather than run my AXL.

I said, OK. And I'll only bring the AXE.
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Do be sure to give us an update on how this gig turns out. I'm curious to see if he ends up liking the Axe, or keeps his bad attitude.
 
Isn't the guy paid for the job? He probably gets paid more then any of the band members. So it's a job. So he has to work in favor of the band not the other way around. He has to deal with whatever is offered to him and can not dictate what gear the band should bring. Maybe with a beginning band he can do some suggestions but that's it. So don't care for what he says and bring the stuff you normally use on stage and let him deal with it.
 
Bodde said:
So he has to work in favor of the band not the other way around.
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that's not always the case. for many clubs, a hired sound guy is told to "protect the club's gear" and keep the volume at certain levels. sometimes to the sound guy, that means only using 58s for vocal mics, so other mics with different EQs don't cause feedback since it's already set for 58s (yeah less work for him), and also not allowing gear or methods that they are unfamiliar with.

i've replied to this question a lot on this forum, but many times you just have to talk with the guy and explain what it is. of course, some people just won't listen and you'll have to either talk to someone else higher up or just deal with it and possibly not do that gig if that engineer makes your band sound bad because of his lack of skill and experience.
 
Small wedding.....Small room. What the hell are you paying this parasite for anyway? Do the mix yourselves from stage. Use a wireless system to do a sound check from the back of the room.
 
tallcoolone said:
Ok, but the second half of his rant came after I let him know that I would be providing my own stage monitor. He went on to suggest I bring one of my 100w amps and "turn it down real low" rather than run my AXL.

I said, OK. And I'll only bring the AXE.
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If I were you I'd be bringing the monitor. You will then hear what you want to hear at least. Basic insurance for any unknown rooms, PAs, sound guys etc. Surely there's enough incentive to do so already through your communication with the sound guy?? It's a wedding gig too ....... that fact alone is enough to make me think I'd need to bring enough for a 80% backline 20% PA situation.
 
Severed said:
I actually play a venue regularly where they provide a PA, monitor and FoH with this exact setup as you've described. We have no problems at all getting a perfect stage mix. The thing is and I think it helps a lot, is we rehearse with a monitor rig so everyone is 100% used to hearing my guitar only through their vocal monitors. It might shock a lot of guitar players to know that believe it or not, the other band members don't really want to hear your guitar that much in their monitors.
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so the killer thing then is your band's preparedness..
you know what you want, know how to make it work for you, know what to expect..

not everyone is quite that switched on.. lmao
 
I've been gigging with the Axe FX for a little while now, and I found the attitude towards it has gotten better over time. Some are still a bit reluctant but that usually disappears when it's plugged in and turned up. ;-)
 
The tweeter squeal thing with monitors is an issue for me, even with the Q12A I bring along as my personal guitar monitor, so I'm changing to a real guitar cab, but I'll still give the foh my outputs with irs.
Only complaint I've had is that my levels are all over the place, and one man said he'd prefer me playing on a real amp (he has a Lazy J deluxe tweed, I use the Axe one), but mostly, sound guys are very happy with my setup.
 
randyman said:
I think that one of the issues here is not that the sound guys are assholes, but that nothing in their years of professional experience has prepared them for the Axe-FX. From their point of view, maybe direct truly never has worked.

If instead, you asked “have you seen one of these before?” and ask them to check it out with you, and give it a chance… maybe the scales will fall from their eyes (wrong metaphor) just like they have for us.
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I think some of it is the assumption of their "years of professional experience". I'm not sure how many of these cats have earned the 'professional' moniker. I've got 25 years worth of experience and a bachelor's in production under my belt and I'm a bit reticent to call myself a professional. Bottom line is that his job as a sound engineer is to make the FOH sound good and help you guys put on a good show by making sure you have what you need. Too many guys get this ass backward. You think Petrucci's sound guy it telling him what he needs to use? I'm gonna go with a hearty hell no. His job is to work with the band and the tools they have and make it work as best he can. I can understand a tech getting a bit pissy about having to mic a pignose and try to make it sound really good, but even still...shut up and do your job.
 
tallcoolone said:
Ok, but the second half of his rant came after I let him know that I would be providing my own stage monitor. He went on to suggest I bring one of my 100w amps and "turn it down real low" rather than run my AXL.

I said, OK. And I'll only bring the AXE.
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haa.. now here's the prob.. wandering on stage in a small venue with a great big valve amp can compromise your tone..
some great big amps have a very narrow band of "sweetness".. which for poweramps tends to be in the "ear-bleed" zone..
which is where the Axe-II wins.. cos we can set up the amp block to settings that emulate a real amp running hot, yet retain control over the actual level..

I play in a variety of venues from small clubs right up to open air stadiums, and anything in between..
my advice is...

- keep it simple: the last thing anyone wants during a sound check is any kind of issue that'll slow the process down.. especially if it is a needless argument / pssing contest
so.. take your Axe, and take your backline / monitoring.. if the engineer will not / cannot accomodate you, do not waste time and energy arguing the toss.. as someone rightly pointed out earlier in this thread, live shows are magnetic to grief enough.. so it helps if everyone tries not to add to it.. when you wander out there to do the whole rock star trip, as best as is possible, you want all your planets aligned and good vibes to prevail..

- never restrict your options: if you show up with just your fx-unit and a guitar, having left your perfectly good backling / monitoring at home, you are inviting misfortune.. if all works out well, then power to ya.. but if it don't, you'll be heading for an uncomfortable 90mins under the lights... with folk watching.. that don't sound fun to me..
also... I mentioned ealier in this thread that DC just shows up with his GT-10.. this is fine for most shows we play.. big venue, big / capable desk.. seperate sound guys for FoH and monitor mixes.. plenty of monitors to go round [and some], and we each have our own individual monitor mixes... nice and easy.. everyone gets what they want and need with cherries on top..
however.. lmao.. occasionally we play in a smaller place with a less capable desk... at these gigs, DC struggles.. there are not enough monitor mixes for everyone.. so.. either DC gets his own mix and the rest of the band get the other [which compromises the rest of the band - mostly the drummer.. which is IMHO fkn insane], or the drummer has one mix and the rest of us have the other.. meaning that DC is fkn loud in the monitors and compromises the rest of us [which is equally fkn insane]..
better still DC hands over control of his stage levels and eq to the sound guy.. so.. once the show starts, if he realises he has a prob with his monitoring [level or EQ], he can do exactly nothing about it...
me on the other hand... I wheel in my two Marshall 4x12 cabs, my Axe and poweramp sat on top..
I never have probs hearing myself on stage [erm... no sht Sherlock.. lol..]
the sound eng see the big boxes and stuffs a mic in front of each.. simple.. familiar... biz as usual.. smiles and nice vibes all round..
and........ I maintain control over my sound on stage... essentially, I keep my own nuts in my own pants rather than hand them over to someone else..

where possible, try not to boil the ocean and keep the whole live situation as slick and agro free as poss..
then hopefully everyone has a great night..
 
So just to throw my $0.02 in as a current Axe user and as a former professional touring sound engineer. When I was doing large festivals 10-15 years ago we wouldn't let guitarist go direct unless it was an acoustic because at that time processors really did sound like trash. Putting enough of that guitar into the monitors for the guitarist while not having it step all over the vocals was very hard to do, especially with the crap those older processors spit out in the high mids.
One tour I was on was all festival stuff for easy riders rodeo's, we went so far as to have 2 bass amps and 8 guitar amps on stage all provided ahead of time (coincidentally Fender sponsored the tour and provided all that gear). We also had a drum kit setup and tuned that was provided by the tour. We did a ton of bands on those weekends, basically 75 minute slots per band with 15 minute changes over from 6 or 7 PM on Friday through Sunday evening. We had plenty of national acts play on that gear, they were groups like Marshall Tucker, Jefferson Starship, etc etc... Not huge names but big enough to be demanding. We would let bands bring up their own amps too and just throw a 57 in front of it, but they had to be real quick about it, the stage hands were basically rushing them offstage as they hit their last note. During shows like that if someone would have brought an Axe up, I probably would have told them to plug it into an amp or just plug into an amp. My job was to get as many bands onstage as quickly as possible and that meant making minimal EQ changes to monitors and strictly controlling what microphones were on stage.

As I moved back into clubs after touring I saw more and more of the direct rigs, most of them sounded like crap, and 100% of the sound was coming from the PA which was tuned for the room and to allow vocals to still ride above the mix. The only rigs that I thought sounded halfway decent were the ones with live amps where they were using some kind of cabinet emulation.

I'm not defending the sound guy here, but understand that job sucks too. Most sound guys who aren't out on major tours are wanna be musicians from my experience. They all have an opinion on what you should sound like, and they are all there doing sound for what is pretty crap money, long hours and not getting the joy of playing out of it. They just started doing it because it was better than flipping burgers, but it is really easy to get bitter about the job when you really want to be the guy onstage and not the guy behind the board. Once they get bitter they just want things to be easy and don't want to mess with new things they don't understand.

In the end I stopped being a sound guy because I really didn't like the job and got bitter about it, luckily I was young and had some other things to fall back on.

Now I think the Axe is the bee's knee's and would smile if I was running sound and someone showed up with them, but you wouldn't believe the looks I get still from other guitarist and sound guys when they see no speakers on stage or I am handing the sound guy our fan tail and stage plot. People don't like change...

If I were you I'd just be straight up with the sound guy. Tell him you've run this way regularly with no issues, you'll bring your monitor so he has nothing to worry about from an onstage sound standpoint, and he can treat it like he would any other amp on stage. I wouldn't remind him that you are the artist and it is his job to mix not to pick your gear, even if done gently it will make for an uncomfortable night. I also wouldn't tell him you're bringing something you aren't, if the guy has this much of an attitude already you are inviting something worse when you showed up intentionally not doing what you said you would. Then if he doesn't cool his jets I'd make sure he was never used by your group again - easy enough.

</longramblingpost>
 
+1 and some

what a valuable $0.02 that is....
I've been working with guys like you for years [as the artist]..
I totally know and understand that everything runs as sweet as poss when we're all playing for the same team..
and I totally know and understand that there can be diva's on both sides of the desk... lmao
 
Phew... it's threads like this that make me so glad we're entirely self-contained, all direct and all on in-ears. Super quick, super slick and super consistent
thumbsup.gif
(once all the hard work is done in pre-production of course!)
 
My sound guy loves the AXE he says it makes his job dinkin with the guitar sound and stage volume a whole lot easier....................The guitar pickups facing directly into the monitors speakers and horns usually causes feedback and eq problems...........I use active pickups and a noise gate in the AXE haven't had these issues................unless your just standing there in front of the monitor not playing and gain wide open I can't see an issue??????.............one thing I've learned over the years is sounds guys really need to learn how to use gates............they are a great tool for keeping feedback at bay .....that includes all mics.... ie vocal drume etc.............
 
Well said KevinP.

For a lot of music and acts (not all), the lead vocal is the primary focus of the mix. And if the vocals are on wedges, they trump anything else.

In my experience, vocals only in the wedges and a good backline makes it easier to get the stage mix right and the FOH right. Less complicated.
 
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