Sound engineer has issues with AXE--suggestions?

He uses KW series that are dedicated for his guitar. problem with using "vocal" monitors (as part of a sound system) for your axe/guitar rig is that they are EQ'd for the intended purpose, not a flat response at all.

yet dweezil is using k12's which buy most people's accounts are "vocal monitors". I've went with no amp at all once and played through the vocal monitor and got by fine... not preferred, but i'm not that much of a diva.

Some sound guys just fear change, and only want to do what they know. Once in a while you will meet someone who is open to new things and not immediately shut you down... it's rare though.
 
Some sound guys just fear change, and only want to do what they know. Once in a while you will meet someone who is open to new things and not immediately shut you down... it's rare though.

I'm not a sound guy, but I don't blame them for that attitude. They're the ones responsible for putting you out in front of God and everybody. If they're serious about their craft, they know that's a big responsibility.

On the other hand, if they're serious about their craft, they stay on top of the latest trends, methodologies and practices so they can adjust to changing conditions rather than make excuses.
 
Really? I could'a sworn it was an Atomic... Either way, he had stellar control of dynamics and the FOH Guitar was the best i've ever heard anywhere, anywhen.
yet dweezil is using k12's which buy most people's accounts are "vocal monitors". I've went with no amp at all once and played through the vocal monitor and got by fine... not preferred, but i'm not that much of a diva.

Some sound guys just fear change, and only want to do what they know. Once in a while you will meet someone who is open to new things and not immediately shut you down... it's rare though.
 
maybe this sound guy has only had previous experience DI-ing lesser FX-units.. and by the sound of it, not good experiences..
ask him to keep an open mind with respect to the Axe-II cos it's a cut above the average FX-unit..

that said.. David Cross [the guy I play for] plays a solid body electric 5-string violin through a Boss GT-10 [I think he has the GT-100 now]..
his tech rider asks for a pair of DI boxes and a pair of extra stage monitors for him only..
so on stage, he has 3 monitors.. a general mix [like the rest of us], and either side of that one, his left and right "violin only" stage monitors..
he's been using this monitoring method for at least 10 years now.. maybe even more..
so jacking fx-units straight into the PA is not exactly new..

my other guess is that this sound eng may not have enough monitors to allow you one or more just for you..
or he may not be able to create enough different mixes in the monitors..
it does make sense to me to not want to be forced into mixing your guitar tone in with everything else as the only means of monitoring the guitars as you would if you could only have a single monitor mix [for everyone]..
 
My experiences (small venues, few bands per evening etc.) would say pretty similar as clarky:
– there are not enough monitors (mix ways) so that di-guitar and vocal shall use the same monitor –*the venues where I play has usually 2 or 4 way monitoring system, so that the guitar cab is very often used for stage monitoring. We are 5 in the band, so it is usually not possible to have separate mixes for every band member
- The sound guys that I met has different experiences with digital devices (also Axe Fx) and were often not satisfied how they sound. That has nothing (not a lot) with quality of the device per se (Axe vs POD). It has more with how the user of this devices tweaked/created their tone (often at home, low volume, not experienced people).
- I would say that all sound guys can mic the amp, that is their day job for years, so they want to do what they can the best or what they think it is the safest way. In my case, they do not argue about use DI with me, but that is more work for them too, because usually we are often the only band that use guitar signal direct to FOH (we use power amp and cab for our monitoring, so we can manage our stage volume independent from FOH too).
- The monitors that I see in those venues are usually very low budget, so it is possible to play through them but it is not enjoyable – it is not enough time to tweak the EQ a lot too, because we are often somewhere in the middle of the line up, so we have only line check (few minutes)
 
I don't get it. What is the difference between using the vocal monitors for your guitar sound or in ear monitors?

Vocal monitors aren't designed for accurate sound reproduction. They're designed to let the vocalists hear themselves. The frequency response is anything but flat and they have high directivity.
 
I had a situation like this with a sound guy the first time I played a live band gig for my old school with the Axe-FX II. I got a phone call before the show from a few members of other bands doing a soundcheck who told me that he was going to flat out refuse to let me use it. When I arrived and went to talk to him the first thing he said to me was "Why don't you just get a real amp?" I just about slapped the bastard and left, being quite keen to utilize my new investment. It took me about 10 minutes of toing and froing to convince him to even let me get it on stage, let alone the hassle of getting him to soundcheck it. The show ended up going without a hitch and he never said anything bad to me afterwards. I swear that a god complex is a requirement to be employed as a local small town sound guy.
 
Without arguments like these, sound guys have nothing to do anymore.

Air moving indeed.
 
Without arguments like these, sound guys have nothing to do anymore.

Air moving indeed.

it's us muso types that are engaged in the art of moving air..
it's the sound guy's job to ensure that we move a little more of it.. lol..
 
My band played at an outdoor festival last weekend as the headliner. When I was setting up onstage, the stage engineer came over with a mic stand and a Sennheiser e609. I told him "Thank you, but I don't need a mic or a stand. I'll provide you with a full-range direct out via XLR". BTW: our stage plot and tech rider clearly indicate the guitar is direct XLR. He glumly said "direct guitar never works", and dropped the mic line on the stage as he walked away. I wired up, did a quick line check, and played the show. Between our sets I asked him if he was getting what he needed from my direct feed, or if there were any changes he'd like to have made. He said "...whatever... just leave it".

Sometimes there is no point is attempting to make someone happy. This was clearly one of those times. I'm sure he knows his stuff reasonably well; he's employed by a production company with a positive reputation in the industry. He was running a Midas console with full automation (and that was the monitor board!) and definitely knew how to use it. Aside from being grumpy, which is probably understandable at the end of a two-day festival, he may have had experiences with other direct-out processors.

At the end of the gig I chatted with the FOH engineer to get his impressions of the direct feed and he said it was fantastic. Turns out he's a guitarist and has been curious about the AxeFX, and hearing it live made him more interested in getting one. I really should just carry business cards as a FAS ambassador :)
 
Just do your thing. He is too inexperienced and probably not intelligent enough know when he is wrong.

on the other hand.. he may know enough about his mixer, the number of available monitors and monitor mixes he can offer..
quite often in smaller venues with smaller / less capable mixing desks it's just 2 monitor mixes..
one for the drummer, the other for everyone else..
if that's the case, throwing the Axe straight into the desk in the hope of getting a great on-stage sound and level may not be wise..

so before all us Axe-FX users that know better point and laugh, it may well be worth considering what the sound guy actually has at his disposal..
 
Seems like one of those guys that no matter how locked in your patch is, he's still going to give you trash for it. Best of luck!
 
on the other hand.. he may know enough about his mixer, the number of available monitors and monitor mixes he can offer..
quite often in smaller venues with smaller / less capable mixing desks it's just 2 monitor mixes..
one for the drummer, the other for everyone else..
if that's the case, throwing the Axe straight into the desk in the hope of getting a great on-stage sound and level may not be wise..

so before all us Axe-FX users that know better point and laugh, it may well be worth considering what the sound guy actually has at his disposal..

I actually play a venue regularly where they provide a PA, monitor and FoH with this exact setup as you've described. We have no problems at all getting a perfect stage mix. The thing is and I think it helps a lot, is we rehearse with a monitor rig so everyone is 100% used to hearing my guitar only through their vocal monitors. It might shock a lot of guitar players to know that believe it or not, the other band members don't really want to hear your guitar that much in their monitors.
 
on the other hand.. he may know enough about his mixer, the number of available monitors and monitor mixes he can offer..
quite often in smaller venues with smaller / less capable mixing desks it's just 2 monitor mixes..
one for the drummer, the other for everyone else..
if that's the case, throwing the Axe straight into the desk in the hope of getting a great on-stage sound and level may not be wise..

so before all us Axe-FX users that know better point and laugh, it may well be worth considering what the sound guy actually has at his disposal..

Ok, but the second half of his rant came after I let him know that I would be providing my own stage monitor. He went on to suggest I bring one of my 100w amps and "turn it down real low" rather than run my AXL.

I said, OK. And I'll only bring the AXE.
 
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