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Some questions about the tuner

Anto

Inspired
Hi to you all.
I need some help about an odd thing with the tuner :

Sometimes, I tune my guitars a half step down.
With my AX8, it's perfect, because the tuner gives me the good name of the notes, just with the "b" added, like this : Eb-Ab-Db-Gb-Bb-Eb
It's better than other tuners which give the # notes : D#-G#-C#-F#-A#-D#.

But something is odd with the tuner on my AxeFXIII, when I tune my guitars a half step down, 2 notes on the tuner are "#" and others are "b" like this :
Eb-Ab-C#-F#-Bb-Eb.
Why the 3rd and 4th strings are with a # ? Is there a thing to do to have all the 6 notes with "b" as on my AX8 ?
I have tried to find, but don't succeed.

Thank for your help.
 

Anto

Inspired
Yes I know this thank you... My question is why only these 3rd and 4th strings are with a #, and all the other ones with a "b" ?
I like better all 6 notes with the "b"... it's just a matter of better ease reading my tuner in live situations.
 

TG3K

Power User
...My question is why only these 3rd and 4th strings are with a #, and all the other ones with a "b" ?
I like better all 6 notes with the "b"... it's just a matter of better ease reading my tuner in live situations.
I'll second this. I gig with 3 guitars tuned to E and one tuned to Eb. When I'm tuning the Eb guitar, why do some strings show up as Xb with the others displaying as X#? I realize that F# is the same as Gb, but when I'm tuning EADGBE down a half step, seeing Eb Ab C# F# Bb Eb isn't intuitive.
 

Anto

Inspired
Exactly... I don’t know how, but on my AX8, with guitars tuned a half step down, all the strings are displayed with « b »... Eb Ab Db Gb Bb Eb... which is a lot more intuitive.
 

Doctor Wu

Inspired
C# = Db in equal temperament.
It's not really anything to do with the temperament, more the key you're playing in.
As I remember from my music theory days, no matter the key, there should always be an A, B, C, D, E, F, and G, of some sort, be it sharp, flat, double sharp or double flat. So:

E = E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E

Eb= Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb
 

ethomas1013

Fractal Fanatic
But in the end, does it really matter? Are you in tune? I suppose we could ask for an option to display in all flats or all sharps?
 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
It's not really anything to do with the temperament, more the key you're playing in.
As I remember from my music theory days, no matter the key, there should always be an A, B, C, D, E, F, and G, of some sort, be it sharp, flat, double sharp or double flat. So:

E = E, F#, G#, A, B, C#, D#, E

Eb= Eb, F, G, Ab, Bb, C, D, Eb
We used a combination of sharps and flats because that's what most people who study music would use. You never find a piece of music in the key of Gb, it will be in F#.

IOW, people who have formal training use the following convention:
C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb, B
 

Doctor Wu

Inspired
We used a combination of sharps and flats because that's what most people who study music would use. You never find a piece of music in the key of Gb, it will be in F#.

IOW, people who have formal training use the following convention:
C, C#, D, Eb, E, F, F#, G, Ab, A, Bb, B
But you can't use those in all keys, it really depends on the key you're playing in. For example, the key of C# Major is:

C#, D#, E# (which is actually the F key on a keyboard) F#, G#, A#, B#, (note C on keyboard) C#

Using that convention, C# would look like this:

C#, Eb, F, F#, Ab, Bb, C, C#. No D or G, which is all wrong. :oops:
 
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lqdsnddist

Axe-Master
I suppose simplest solution is just learn to retrain your brain to the way the tuner displays. I’ve used the Axe tuner for so long, it’s natural to me now, and doesn’t throw me off at all.
 

Doctor Wu

Inspired
C#, Eb, F, F#, Ab, Bb, C, C# Which is all wrong.
You never find a piece of music in the key of Gb, it will be in F#.
I'm sorry if I seem pedantic, but that's not true. The scale of Gb is:

Gb, Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, F and Gb

As used here and elsewhere:

 

FractalAudio

Administrator
Fractal Audio Systems
Moderator
C#, Eb, F, F#, Ab, Bb, C, C# Which is all wrong.


I'm sorry if I seem pedantic, but that's not true. The scale of Gb is:

Gb, Ab, Bb, Cb, Db, Eb, F and Gb

As used here and elsewhere:

That's just temperament. In equal temperament we use F#.
 

jclemensfl

Inspired
This is a great music theory discussion.
But in practice, when you are tuning down at a live show, it does seem to make more sense to simply have all flats or all sharps across the board. Regardless of the musical theoretical reasoning or regular convention. Speed and simplicity is the key when you have 1000 people in front of you, waiting for the next song.
Not knowing how the programming works, would this be difficult to make user-selectable?
 

Doctor Wu

Inspired
I fully agree that this is the regular convention for musicians.

The tuner is chromatic, the key isn't relevant.
Oh yes that's true. Unless we could somehow dial our key into the tuner. But temperament does not affect notation.
 
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