Some help to get this Marshall rock punch (not metal chug)

Jimmykonsta

Jimmykonsta

Member
Hey guys, I know this is a bit nerdy. I have a punk/rock recording and I am searching for a tone like the ones at the following vids.

I tried every possible amp/cab combo, with different guitars, with soft and hard picks, hitting hard or softly and from different angles. In fact, at the first video the guy uses classic 57's which I have on some of my guitars.

I can get very close EQ-wise, but the punch (I don't know how else to describe it, these tones sound just like that: a punch in the face lol) and that certain marshall "character" is missing. Those mids that sound like someone is hitting your chest and these highs that sound wild like a whip (LOL). The Fm3 sounds very gentle in comparison and the notes/chords do not "open" - respond like these sample tones.

Is there any trick I am missing? Is there a certain cab or amp that can provide this punch and character? Any setting that I should play around with? Any help would be much appreciated.



at 5.25 and 5.31 when he hits one powerchord repeatedly



at 00.46 and from there

I love my fm3, I know it's somewhere in there!
 
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Try this.

LT had a video a while back that talked about adding a PEQ block with "live settings" I use it with every preset and it's killer.

watch this video starting at about the the 5:44 mark

 
Thank you, I did actually play with the eq settings and post eq but doesnt seem to work. It must be something that alters the amp behaviour probably and not something related to EQ. Do you hear how punchy the samples at the vids are? They have a certain response and attack.
 
How hard are you hitting the strings? With most amps you can get from smushy 90s zoom pedal to hard rock to metal chug just with your right hand.
 
GiRa said:
How hard are you hitting the strings? With most amps you can get from smushy 90s zoom pedal to hard rock to metal chug just with your right hand.
Click to expand...

Tried both hard and soft but cant get that type of attack.

warlockII said:
What are you listening through? How loud do you have it?
Click to expand...

I mostly listen at normal home volume, not loud but not too quiet. Listened through studio monitors and through little PC hifi speakers. The attack of the samples is always there. I recorded the same riffs through a looper and played with cabs, amps, eq, compression etc.
 


My attempt but definitely less punch on high mids compared to the real deal.
but i think it wouldn't be always necessary depending on the song.

1st is unprocessed(track #1,2), 2nd is processed(track #3,4) as attached photo.
Processed one might sound a little bit dark but that's what i intended.
I assume that there would be vocal track and i don't want guitars to fight with vocal lool

Guitar is Fender player series stratocaster and sorry for bad tuning i was a bit lazy tho..

Btw i used two amps for the sound demo but i forgot which one is which lol. It's rather JCM 800 or JCM 800 #34.
 

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I’d almost think to look towards the guitar/setup/strings instead of the tone itself.

Nothing will wake a track up quicker than a fresh set of strings! This is why while I’m in recording mode, I’m changing strings about every 4-5 hours of play time on them. There’s a, what I consider, massive difference in that exact area, the punch and attack, that is highlighted with new strings and is exactly what dulls down once they’ve been played a bit.

The tone is fairly “Yep, that’s a Marshall” sound, I’m not hearing anything that’s making it that much more special than Other Marshall/Friedman type tones, which is why I’m leaning more on the side of the guitar/setup. If the strings aren’t sounding all that lively playing unplugged, I wouldn’t the pickups to inject life back into them. The action has a hand in that as well, as I used to play with stupid high action, when I lowered it, there was all that spank, snap and volume!
 
Lower or zero speaker compression, possibly set input trim to .5 or .75 depending on amp model, run master volume lower, lower sag, decouple virtual tube preamp and power amp etc.

The above are all things to try when seeking less compression.
 
DJD100 said:
Lower or zero speaker compression, possibly set input trim to .5 or .75 depending on amp model, run master volume lower, lower sag, decouple virtual tube preamp and power amp etc.

The above are all things to try when seeking less compression.
Click to expand...

Those are some of the de facto things I do to get the amp models to "open up" more.
Some of the Marshalls, if you look at the meter in the Amp Block have little to no headroom
and are clipping when you dig in too much---which is sometimes needed to get a Marshall
to growl.

I drop the Master down to get the Meter to ONLY clip and max out when I am digging in my
hardest, then compensate with boosting the Level in the Amp Block. Dropping the Input Trim
to around .800 seems to be a sweet spot for me with the Marshalls in the FM3.
 
la noise said:
Those are some of the de facto things I do to get the amp models to "open up" more.
Some of the Marshalls, if you look at the meter in the Amp Block have little to no headroom
and are clipping when you dig in too much---which is sometimes needed to get a Marshall
to growl.

I drop the Master down to get the Meter to ONLY clip and max out when I am digging in my
hardest, then compensate with boosting the Level in the Amp Block. Dropping the Input Trim
to around .800 seems to be a sweet spot for me with the Marshalls in the FM3.
Click to expand...
the meter in the amp block doesn't indicate clipping, just how much headroom the virtual power amp has.

Added “Headroom” monitoring meter to Amp block. The most common reason for “muddy” tones with high-gain amps is incorrect setting of the Master Volume control. The Headroom meter displays the voltage at the virtual power tubes in dB. If the Master Volume is too high the meter will be near 0 dB most of the time. Note that this only applies to amps where the power amp is intended to run “clean” like the 6160, Recto, etc. Non-Master Volume amps get their distortion from the power amp distorting so this recommendation does not apply.
 
Loss of headroom, clipping, and distortion are all kind of the same thing, no?

When the Meter maxs out then you lose headroom and dynamics and all the
other good stuff that makes Marshalls (whether actual or virtual) so fun to play.

I understand the nature of a Marshall circuit from playing and owning so many of
them over the years (like many of us probably have), and when I push them too hard
they start to get mushy, ill-defined, and lose dynamics. The Fractal doesn't hurt my
ears so much, though, when that happens. :)
 
la noise said:
Loss of headroom, clipping, and distortion are all kind of the same thing, no?

When the Meter maxs out then you lose headroom and dynamics and all the
other good stuff that makes Marshalls (whether actual or virtual) so fun to play.

I understand the nature of a Marshall circuit from playing and owning so many of
them over the years (like many of us probably have), and when I push them too hard
they start to get mushy, ill-defined, and lose dynamics. The Fractal doesn't hurt my
ears so much, though, when that happens. :)
Click to expand...
in this case, no, they aren't. You don't clip the power amp, just get more saturation. I actually prefer most of the Marshalls push the power amp into saturation. That's why you'll see many people with the bass on zero on some of the older amps, to tame the flub that comes with pushing them so hard.
 
Totally not in the spirit of being faithful to the actual amps, but try turning negative feedback up. Gives a "harder" tone, not necessarily what I'm looking for per se, but it "collapses" less when you push it, keeps punching.
 
what IR's are you using? I would look at the York IR's as from listening to the first video the sound is quite similar sounds I can get from York IR's which always have a clear bottom end (pretty mix ready) - one of my favourite marshall sounds is the cornford amp but with the York mesa 212 test pack - also don't be afraid to try different speaker curves to the Ir's you are using.
also i find turning the preamp sag off can help - you can then compensate with the power amp/speaker compression

Perhaps @York Audio could help you
 
Jimmykonsta said:
Hey guys, I know this is a bit nerdy. I have a punk/rock recording and I am searching for a tone like the ones at the following vids.

I tried every possible amp/cab combo, with different guitars, with soft and hard picks, hitting hard or softly and from different angles. In fact, at the first video the guy uses classic 57's which I have on some of my guitars.

I can get very close EQ-wise, but the punch (I don't know how else to describe it, these tones sound just like that: a punch in the face lol) and that certain marshall "character" is missing. Those mids that sound like someone is hitting your chest and these highs that sound wild like a whip (LOL). The Fm3 sounds very gentle in comparison and the notes/chords do not "open" - respond like these sample tones.

Is there any trick I am missing? Is there a certain cab or amp that can provide this punch and character? Any setting that I should play around with? Any help would be much appreciated.



at 5.25 and 5.31 when he hits one powerchord repeatedly



at 00.46 and from there

I love my fm3, I know it's somewhere in there!
Click to expand...

I tried to get a tone in between those two videos using the Brit 800 Mod model. For IRs, I used the York Audio MRSH 412 M25 Mix 03 for the first stereo pair and used Mix 05 for the underlying second stereo pair (panned 35L and 35R) midway through, kinda like the Green Day sample. If you want more of that upper mid thing from the Green Day track, just raise the treble a bit higher. Both of those clips have a healthy amount of Marshally sizzle in the top end and the Brit 800 Mod does a great job of that without being "too much."

Here's the clip:



I used my '89 Les Paul Custom with Suhr Thornbucker+ pickups. There isn't any additional EQ or processing aside from a limiter just to get the clip up to a normal volume.

Amp settings:
Drive - 7
Bass - 4.41
Mid - 9.32
Treble - 7.10
Presence - 5.82
Master Volume - 4
Impedance Curve - 4x12 Basketweave
 
York Audio said:
I tried to get a tone in between those two videos using the Brit 800 Mod model. For IRs, I used the York Audio MRSH 412 M25 Mix 03 for the first stereo pair and used Mix 05 for the underlying second stereo pair (panned 35L and 35R) midway through, kinda like the Green Day sample. If you want more of that upper mid thing from the Green Day track, just raise the treble a bit higher. Both of those clips have a healthy amount of Marshally sizzle in the top end and the Brit 800 Mod does a great job of that without being "too much."

Here's the clip:



I used my '89 Les Paul Custom with Suhr Thornbucker+ pickups. There isn't any additional EQ or processing aside from a limiter just to get the clip up to a normal volume.

Amp settings:
Drive - 7
Bass - 4.41
Mid - 9.32
Treble - 7.10
Presence - 5.82
Master Volume - 4
Impedance Curve - 4x12 Basketweave
Click to expand...


Holy $hit, that's damn close! Not 100% eq-wise (probably because you went for the in between tone), but the character and the response I am looking for is 100% there!

The IR pack is this one right?

https://www.yorkaudio.co/product-page/mrsh-412-m25

I am getting it ASAP!

May I ask which pick you used? Thanks so much sir, you just saved my day :)
 
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