• We would like to remind our members that this is a privately owned, run and supported forum. You are here at the invitation and discretion of the owners. As such, rules and standards of conduct will be applied that help keep this forum functioning as the owners desire. These include, but are not limited to, removing content and even access to the forum.

    Please give yourself a refresher on the forum rules you agreed to follow when you signed up.

Solving the in-ears puzzle...

orion32773

Regular
Just not sure what his response would be if he's wanting to EQ the mix and I'm telling him not to mess with mine too much. Trying to keep a good relationship with him lol
 

chris

Legend!
I EQ the bus sending my IEM Mix. Just as any speaker doesn’t get used completely flat in a pro situation, IEMs can benefit from EQ as well. I find any irritating mid frequencies. Usually the 2 most offending. I dump a lot of low end too. I can still feel it and it sounds good, but too much clouds up the entire mix for me. Highs are to taste. I go for clarity, as it’s a monitor mix, not a home listening situation.

Every IEM is different so you’ll have to experiment.

Here are my thoughts from a previous thread just as en example:


in my opinion, you shouldn't have to dial a fundamental tone differently for different speakers. if we mic a real amp/cab, that signal is going to all speakers, IEMs, etc. you don't use a separate amp for your in-ear tone.

what people may not realize or try is to EQ each speaker send specifically for the speaker. FOH always EQ's the mains, stage monitors are always EQ'd to prevent feedback (and hopefully to sound good). there's no reason an IEM send shouldn't be EQ'd as well.

for example, here is the curve i use for the Shure SE215:



these are the $99 IEMs, but i prefer them in most situations because of how predictable they are. in my experience, having way too much Low Frequency in an IEM send is what kills the experience for many. yes, we want to feel the bass and all of that, but the driver/speaker is millimeters from our ear drum - there isn't enough space to feel anything there. so i dump a bunch of lows. even after this major cut in lowend, i still feel the fundamental and great bass tone from either my guitar, or a bass guitar, kick drum, etc. you'll have to experiment with how much to cut.

once this low end is out of the way, everything else above it feels like it opens up suddenly, with much more clarity than before. i then take care of the most irritating mid frequencies that i hear - set a small Q, then boost and move around till it's the most irritating, then cut it. for me it's around 250 and 2k on the SE215. and with this particular IEM, i feel there isn't enough high end, so i boost the high shelf to taste.

i don't have a picture of it on me now, but my curve for the Westone UM30Pro is completely different. i think i leave the high end alone, don't cut as much bass, and the mid notches are way different. i actually have more trouble dialing in the UM30Pro than the SE215. they both end up sounding great to me.

a thing to remember is that these are monitors so we can hear what we are doing clearly, and perform well. i feel they shouldn't be used to "sound like a recording." listening to music and performing music are 2 different things.

dial in your guitar tone to sound good on your speakers. then EQ the other speaker systems to balance out their own voicings, and make THAT sound like your original tone, instead of redialing your tone.

and yes, a touch of reverb or room sound goes a long way for the entire IEM mix. just a bit.
 

orion32773

Regular
Yes I remember reading this thread in my search. Made sense. Problem for me the other day was that I arrived early and brought my laptop. I used my in ears and also checked FOH speakers to check EQ. Everything sounded acceptable but then something changed over the course of the evening and started sounding worse and worse. guitar tone changed as well as everything else. My humbuckers strangely enough started to feel and sound more like single coils with this harsh trebly tone. Everything he was doing was translating to my in ears.
 

chris

Legend!
Yes I remember reading this thread in my search. Made sense. Problem for me the other day was that I arrived early and brought my laptop. I used my in ears and also checked FOH speakers to check EQ. Everything sounded acceptable but then something changed over the course of the evening and started sounding worse and worse. guitar tone changed as well as everything else. My humbuckers strangely enough started to feel and sound more like single coils with this harsh trebly tone. Everything he was doing was translating to my in ears.
Ask if they started compressing your guitar channel. That makes cleans sound ok, but gain tones go real bad real fast.
 

orion32773

Regular
I've had this before where they have used the keyboard channels from the worship service...through the first song I stopped and asked if they had compression on the channel and sure enough they did. I am quick to set everything flat during soundcheck...or ask them to do it
 

Rex

Legend!
The church I play at just finished a rewire of the entire stage and also wiped our scene (unfortunately) on the x32. We use P16's for each musician. The most recent show was not good but somewhat understandable since we didn't have a lot of time to dial everything in. As we were sound checking the volume in our in ears was jumping all around which would point to a post fader tap issue. I need to verify but I thought I saw each P16 channel coming from a bus as opposed to direct channel out. Issue I continue to have is an inconsistent sound for my guitar. I can dial everything in at home using my asm-12 wedge but once we get to the church (I run direct with no wedge) my sound changes. I also have the same setup at home (x32 with P16's). I'm struggling get a usable pleasant sound in my in ears, and one that keeps the feel of the patch that I setup at home. I can dial in some of the EQ on the P16 but even that doesn't always help. Just making sure that there isn't something the house engineer may be doing incorrectly. We tend to get various sound engineers so they don't always work the same. I started to just work on my sound and use my in ears, but this doesnt always translate to the best sound FOH (I'm using 5 driver custom molded Westone IEM's). Thanks for any help. I'd appreciate it.
You’ll never duplicate the feel of strong stage volume with in-ears. IEMs break the speaker-to-guitar feedback link.
 

orion32773

Regular
You’ll never duplicate the feel of strong stage volume with in-ears. IEMs break the speaker-to-guitar feedback link.
IEMs are a must so I have to figure out a balance. Amps are not an option unfortunately. I have an ASM-12 I'd love to use but its not happening.
 

Rex

Legend!
IEMs are a must so I have to figure out a balance. Amps are not an option unfortunately. I have an ASM-12 I'd love to use but its not happening.
I hear you. There are solid reasons for minimizing stage volume. Unfortunately, “feel” is something a guitarist has to give up to achieve that.
 

Rob13

New here
Just not sure what his response would be if he's wanting to EQ the mix and I'm telling him not to mess with mine too much. Trying to keep a good relationship with him lol
Nah, it's not about the mix, just your channel(s). Basically, the AX8 is not an amp, so it shouldn't be eq'd like one. Ask him to eq it like he would a keyboard (which should mean 'flat'). Might help some.
 

chris

Legend!
Nah, it's not about the mix, just your channel(s). Basically, the AX8 is not an amp, so it shouldn't be eq'd like one. Ask him to eq it like he would a keyboard (which should mean 'flat'). Might help some.
i both agree and disagree with that statement.

yes, start out flat. the "like a keyboard" tip helps initially in many situations.

however, ultimately you are emulating an amp that is mic'd. it may not be 100% dialed in for that system though. so from that flat starting point, a sound engineer is going to EQ it like a guitar amp. it's not a keyboard.

IEMs are a must so I have to figure out a balance. Amps are not an option unfortunately. I have an ASM-12 I'd love to use but its not happening.
people are inventing "kickers" that go on your belt or guitar strap that emulate the low frequency physical feel we get from a loud speaker. i saw something for bassists recently, but i'd guess it could work for guitar too? no idea on the brand or anything, but it's out there.
 

s0c9

Moderator
Moderator
a thing to remember is that these are monitors so we can hear what we are doing clearly, and perform well. i feel they shouldn't be used to "sound like a recording." listening to music and performing music are 2 different things.
This is the key Chris.. your monitor mix should not [necessarily] sound like a CD recording.. tho' if you WANT to hear that, that's fine too (I guess), but tough to attain in a live mix.
Each to their own..but in my stereo mix (as I'm mostly playing bass theses days) I have kick, hat/snare only. NO OH's or toms. .don't need them.. besides, I can usually hear enough of them thru my IEM's! Bass and lead vox are centered and prominent with everything else panned relative to stage location. My harmonies are lower than lead vox levels and panned to 1pm (I'm stage right) with other vocals panned 11am and lower in the mix than mine (so they don't throw me off).
It's what I need to do my job, and having been IEM for about 6 yrs now.. I've figured out what that is I need to hear :)

I did a gig last Sat where we couldn't bring our full rig. I had no ears, no monitor, speakers on sticks (no subs) and played with my bass rig as backline. Did harmonies all night by listening to what I could hear over the PA. Want to talk about being a mind freak for the first hour - until I adjusted. Gimme my IEM's back!!!
 

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
I’m starting to consider giving IEMs a try. Thinking about just running a room mic into input 2 on the Axe and mixing it in the box just to see if I can deal with it to the point where more effort and money is worthwhile.
 

orion32773

Regular
i both agree and disagree with that statement.

yes, start out flat. the "like a keyboard" tip helps initially in many situations.

however, ultimately you are emulating an amp that is mic'd. it may not be 100% dialed in for that system though. so from that flat starting point, a sound engineer is going to EQ it like a guitar amp. it's not a keyboard.


people are inventing "kickers" that go on your belt or guitar strap that emulate the low frequency physical feel we get from a loud speaker. i saw something for bassists recently, but i'd guess it could work for guitar too? no idea on the brand or anything, but it's out there.
Yea my drummer has been talking about them a lot. He has neuropathy in his feet so he has a difficult time feeling the kick.
 

chris

Legend!
I’m starting to consider giving IEMs a try. Thinking about just running a room mic into input 2 on the Axe and mixing it in the box just to see if I can deal with it to the point where more effort and money is worthwhile.
Just remember that Input 2 doesn’t have a mic preamp.
 

Tahoebrian5

Fractal Fanatic
Right, none of the inputs do as far as I know. But it may still work.. I’ll have to give it a try. I do have a mic pre I can use if needed temporarily. I’m mostly interested in just doing a test run to see if I can get used to in ears.
 

s0c9

Moderator
Moderator
I left my church when The "worship" leader told me to buy a Helix....He lost all credibility w/ me right there.
LOL.. worship leaders (in my neck of the woods) ain't exactly noted for being "tech savvy" and he may not have heard of Fractal if he's not into electric guitar :)
 
Top Bottom