[Solved] Do I even need an Axe-FX?

ZaleekX

New Member
So I'm caught up in the "trying to get the best amp sim" rabbit hole and of course that lead me to the Axe-FX III.

Really all I make is skate-punk/melodic hardcore music in my bedroom with my les paul and funky stuff with my strat and tele (also 2 basses). The amp sims I use currently are either Mercuriall's Spark, Neural's SLO-100, or Neural's Corey Wong archetype for the funky cleans (for bass I use the PA Ampeg sims). I've always used plugin sims but the constant posts I come across of "yeah man that Neural DSP/Mercuriall plugin sounds good...but Axe-FX III is like a bajillion times better" makes me wonder if it really is so accurate that the price completely would make it worth it to use as essentially an amp sim/amp replacement to record with. As you can see, what I actually play and make isn't incredibly eclectic or technically detailed, but I would be willing to save up and scrape around a bit if it really is THAT much better and close to the real amps without having them (I might able to afford an Axe FX III, but I definitely can't afford a Marshal JCM800, a Mesa Rec, etc). At most I would use some kind of Marshall sound, some kind of Mesa sound, and some kind of clean Fender amp (probably also an Ampeg amp for my bass, most likely all with my York IRs that I like).

So I wanted to ask actual owners of the hardware who may or may not have been in my position before owning one, am I just overhyping myself from all of the talk, or is it really that much better? If I only need 3 amp sounds (4 if it has an Ampeg model for bass) and maybe some distortion and compression pedals for any music I make. Is sticking with plugin amp sims good enough at the end of the day (especially for what I do)?

Also the FM3 exists so...how about that vs the Axe-FX III for my needs. A lot of the draw towards the FX is that a lot of the really nice presets (should I ever want them) that exist for it take advantage of the dual amp capabilities. Other than that I would just record with a single amp irl anyway so the FM3 is also an option.


Bought an Axe FX III, guess that's that. /thread
 
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If you want a more realistic tone, then yes, without a shadow of a doubt. Fm3 or Axe, sound is the same if one amp block is enough.
 
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In a mix hardly anyone is going to notice. The amp sims you're using are great, especially for bedroom playing, and you can easily supplement with others that are also great for the other amps you're looking for. If you're looking for a wider array of fx that don't require bogging down your DAW there are less expensive options that, also, will sound great in a mix. So, it really just depends on what you want. You might also want to look into picking up a used Axe FX 2 or Ax8.
 
My personal strategy for expensive purchases is to do without for as long as possible. Now that you know the Axe/FM3 exist, yes, they are amazing, it's true, and less expensive by far than all of the real amps they model, but if you hold out for a month.. two months... three months... then still find yourself wanting one, or find yourself thinking "what I have really isn't cutting it", then it's time to upgrade. Anyhoo, that's my strategy. : ) Might work for you!
 
My personal strategy for expensive purchases is to do without for as long as possible. Now that you know the Axe/FM3 exist, yes, they are amazing, it's true, and less expensive by far than all of the real amps they model, but if you hold out for a month.. two months... three months... then still find yourself wanting one, or find yourself thinking "what I have really isn't cutting it", then it's time to upgrade. Anyhoo, that's my strategy. : ) Might work for you!
I like this one, I've been holding off on buying it for about a month so I'll see how I feel in another month or two. If I'm really not liking the sounds I'm getting by then, I'll go for it.

Also I just remembered that the cost isn't as bad if I factor in all of the plugins I could sell if I'm using the Axe-fx instead so, just a little footnote there.
 
As always, affordability plays a key role in any decision. If the AxeFx is an affordable luxury (I say luxury because it doesn't sound like an absolutely 'necessary tool' for your use), then yes go for it!
The AxeIII is not only about the quality of modelled gear, it also offers some serious routing options for any studio. The FM3 is all about portability in comparison IMHO.

The AxeFxIII for me has been an amazing experience and has been the most inspirational musical purchase in my life.
 
Hi @ZaleekX

I know what you mean - You're looking at all that hard earned money, and hoping you don't need an Axe FX III... Been there. All I can do is tell you that I spent many years trying to save that money, but when I finally bit the bullet, I found the unit doesn't just sound good - it's motivating... I want to play. I choose another amp... it sounds so good, I play something else. It's like a time machine as I loose many hours. But that's me.

You don't need it - nobody does. But it's bloody good to have it.

Thanks
Pauly

So I'm caught up in the "trying to get the best amp sim" rabbit hole and of course that lead me to the Axe-FX III.

Really all I make is skate-punk/melodic hardcore music in my bedroom with my les paul and funky stuff with my strat and tele (also 2 basses). The amp sims I use currently are either Mercuriall's Spark, Neural's SLO-100, or Neural's Corey Wong archetype for the funky cleans (for bass I use the PA Ampeg sims). I've always used plugin sims but the constant posts I come across of "yeah man that Neural DSP/Mercuriall plugin sounds good...but Axe-FX III is like a bajillion times better" makes me wonder if it really is so accurate that the price completely would make it worth it to use as essentially an amp sim/amp replacement to record with. As you can see, what I actually play and make isn't incredibly eclectic or technically detailed, but I would be willing to save up and scrape around a bit if it really is THAT much better and close to the real amps without having them (I might able to afford an Axe FX III, but I definitely can't afford a Marshal JCM800, a Mesa Rec, etc). At most I would use some kind of Marshall sound, some kind of Mesa sound, and some kind of clean Fender amp (probably also an Ampeg amp for my bass, most likely all with my York IRs that I like).

So I wanted to ask actual owners of the hardware who may or may not have been in my position before owning one, am I just overhyping myself from all of the talk, or is it really that much better? If I only need 3 amp sounds (4 if it has an Ampeg model for bass) and maybe some distortion and compression pedals for any music I make. Is sticking with plugin amp sims good enough at the end of the day (especially for what I do)?

Also the FM3 exists so...how about that vs the Axe-FX III for my needs. A lot of the draw towards the FX is that a lot of the really nice presets (should I ever want them) that exist for it take advantage of the dual amp capabilities. Other than that I would just record with a single amp irl anyway so the FM3 is also an option.
 
I'm someone who think about price-value-need too..
Spent years with Line6, Tonelab, Eleven-Rack, Guitar Rig and other stuff at home and for Gig and rehearsal I had several Amps or Line6 solution too.
So I never had the same sounds at home and at Rehearsal Room or Gig.
Now I made the coice to sell all unneeded stuff after bought the FM3 and I use it at Home AND Rehearsal or Gigs..
The sound and reaction of it made me to play more and is more inspiring than to struggle with the sound-devices before (OK but never satisfied).
And because of the portable form-factor, I have my good sounds everywhere and not only at Rehearsal Room.
If I would have the money I would probably buy an FX3 in addition too but theres no need for me personally (and as said, no money ;) )
 
The other comments here have made great points so all I'll add, I suppose as a counter-point to @wulftone, is that there's been nothing more liberating than reaching the top of what's possible, tone wise. I came from years and years of amp sims recently, and I can't imagine ever going back.

All I do now is play, and knowing that the only thing left that can improve my tone is my own hands, it's quite liberating.
 
What type of music you make isn't a factor. The question is are you happy with what you currently have? If yes, keep using it. If no, try something else (axe fx/FM3 in this case).

The only thing stopping people from buying gear is money.
 
I own a Fractal FM3, Helix Floor and several plugins (ML Sound Lab, Helix Native...). I have used the Axe-Fx Std and 2 for about a decade together and have tried out many of the plugins on the market.

The top units/software in each category are in the same ballpark. Take a reference tone (e.g. your favorite sound on the FM3/Axe-Fx 3), use the same IRs and you can dial Helix or various plugins to sound and feel very similar. You will end up having different settings to reach that in each device/software.

The hardware units will always have less latency than plugins so that will have an effect on how they feel but personally I am fine with the response I get in plugins.

The reason to choose one over the other comes down to which workflow and feature set you like. Axe-Fx 3 is overkill for a lot of users and the FM3 is a better choice for cost and will work just fine for most guitarists except those who want to run stereo amp models and massive fx chains or want the rack format. IMO stereo amp models are not as useful as you'd think, I rarely use/used them on Helix or the Axe-Fx 2.

I like the Helix better when using it for fx/switching/routing with a real amp because it's easy to setup for that and its models operate like fx pedals so they are both easy to use and one model has everything. Fractal's system is more "build your own setup, figure out how to replicate specific features by reading the wiki notes for the model" - more flexible but lots of "hidden knowledge" if you want to replicate every feature of a particular pedal or amp. So as an example Helix's Horizon Precision Drive has the gate right in the Distortion block whereas Fractal requires you to pair a Drive and Noise gate block together yourself to replicate the functionality.

But the Helix is a really large unit so the FM3 is more convenient as a portable all-in-one and has a huge ton of advanced functionality built in if you want to explore it. Meanwhile the HX Stomp is far more limited so Line6 does not have quite a "sweet spot" device in their lineup for me at least. Overall capabilities of the FM3 and Helix are similar with benefits and drawbacks in different areas. FM3 can switch between 4 different models in many blocks in a single preset. elix cannot do that as each block is its own model but on the flipside Helix allows for stereo amps, multiple cab blocks, multiple reverb chains and so on.

In terms of UI, Helix wins by a landslide on the hardware itself. It's more straightforward, there's less different screens, less clunkiness and inconsistency and less need to read the manual. Fractal wins on the software editor side though, FM3-Edit and Axe-Edit are far better. There's also some 3rd party software like Fracpad for using an iPad with the Fractal units.

But if your needs are pretty limited then plugins are a very good and inexpensive solution or you can try simple pedal units like the Strymon Iridium. Or go all analog with the BluGuitar Amp 1 Mercury Edition which is a real amp you can hook up to a cab and sounds great, will do any Marshall based tones with ease. The BluGuitar Amp 1 Iridium Edition if you are a huge metal fan.

There's a lot of "so much better than the other thing" hyperbole thrown around for modelers especially. To me differences in feature sets and workflows are the more important difference.

My advice to you is that if you are in the US, try a Fractal FM3 and see how that works out for you. If you don't like it then you won't like the Axe-Fx 3 either.
 
Honestly with how good software modeling is these days, I'd say the vast majority of people DON'T need an AxeFX, or even any amp modeling hardware at all if they have a computer that can handle the plugins. They're absolutely incredible pieces of gear, but they're not cheap. It's like buying a $5000 guitar when a $1000 one is "good enough."
 
I don't have an Axe FX 3 as it is being delivered on Thursday but let me say one thing..

I have journeyed between digital and tubes for 25 in years, owning grandmeisters, JVMs, JCMs, and various others with and without attenuators and load boxes, reamp boxes, the Kemper and Two Notes.......the rabbit hole is a personality thing, not a device thing. Why did I order an Axe FX? Because I am always in the rabbit hole be it new amps, impulse responses, effects....... It's me, not the device so I need to restrain myself so my obsession is device agnostic.

For gear at this price range, leverage what you can. You may use only 3 amps but do you like having quality effects at your disposal? Can it replace your soundcard so you simplify your signal chain and make some cash back? Would it provide some vocal effects? Cover your bass needs?

When you figure out what you can use it for the price becomes cheaper rather than just focusing on the price tag.

For me it's about stopping my obsession with amps and pedals and just having everything I need when I want it, for as little or as long as I require, at any time of the day.

I have gone through the VST route and they just sound so sterile and boring to me, even the Helix Native.

Just my opinion.
 
Nope,

You do not need an Axe-FX III. You don't need a dog, 15 guitars, a studio, a fancy sports car, money in the bank, or a lovely girlfriend/wife/husband etc... All that said, if you want one of the most wonderful tone-filled guitar boxes available today, the Axe-FX III is a very good choice.

It's what you can afford, and what you want. That simple.
 
Well you don't really need anything beyond food water and shelter....
If you ever want to play out somewhere or jam, it's a lot nicer than taking a laptop, interface, and PA speaker. It powers on and it is dedicated to one goal. No pop-up windows, automatic updates, unexpected reboots, internet connections and alerts. Imperceptible latency is really nice and is mandatory in my opinion.
If I'm going to sink thousands of dollars into equipment, I'd rather buy the most flexible and fully featured product. That's why I bought the axe fx. A single unit still costs less than a ton of boutique amplifiers and is infinitely more feature rich and flexible. Plus it has just about every effect you'd ever want.

The axe fx cured my GAS. I've definitely saved money in that regard. I've experimented with tones and effects I'd have never come in contact with otherwise.

If all you want is pretty good tones in the box, with a couple effects here and there, I think you are already set.
 
I felt like I had to have it just to shut my brain up. The Axe-FX III is the most advanced thing on the market for guitar sounds and in my opinion, it's not really possible for anything to sound much better than it... So I knew that anything I could possibly need would be in that device and there would be no improvement by using other solutions. It just puts a brick wall in front of my gear acquisition syndrome, if that makes any sense. So for me, it was worth every last penny.

The FM3 is much cheaper and I suspect you will be equally as happy with it because it sounds like you have extremely basic needs like I do. I suspect the only real benefits you would get from the larger unit would be if you wanted to run two guitars though it at once maybe also a bass. But again, this all depends on what are all the things you're going to want to do with a modeling unit.
 
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