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[Solved] Amp Level vs Out Level

vj.907

New Member
First off, just wanted to thank this community for all the knowledge and insight to tones and tweaks. I have been using the AXE FX since the Ultra was introduced and thats been my main since getting the III and FM3 last year. I know Mr. YEK provided somewhat of a tutorial on levels a few weeks back and although it helped me to understand a little about it I'm still clueless on why my tones suck or rather sounds unsatisfying when I play out, here is my situation...

I often volunteer for my local church on Sundays and they do have a pro grade in house system. Problem is the sound guy usually runs all the line ins hot as hell, this leaves me adjusting either my amp levels in my patches or my out levels to some extent as low as -30 thru -40 db. I tried talking to him to lower the levels at the mixer but I don't think he cares, and I don't have the knowledge to challenge him as he is the SME on sound engineering.

Now when I reduce the levels via the amp block my tones are tinny no body and the effects wash out my main tone, at home I run these same patches at -12 through -17 db and adjust volume on my monitor/ amp & cabs with no problems where as the output level or out 1 when reduced seems like its being amplified through a can with an unnatural reverb effect even when i turn all the effects off. This only happens in that church and the external OUT 1 knobs on both my units are set to 3 o clock.

Signal chain is guitar into FM3/AXE FX III out 1 to FOH and out 2 to personal monitors. Using a Magnum 44 to power passive Peavey 10 inch monitors for myself.
I know its not my units as they have me grinning from ear to ear at home through my own setup.
 

Rex

Legend!
Not sure how you're reducing the level at the Amp block, but is sounds like the core of the problem is the sound guy. If you're forced to address the problem at your FM3, why not user the Out 1 Level knob? That way, you adjust all your presets at once. No need to mess with each individual preset. You could also set Out 1 to -10 dBV instead of +4 dBu. That will cut out a bunch of level all by itself.

Neither the Amp Level not the Output Level will change your tone in any way. And they certainly won't add any reverb. If you have to drop your signal by 40 dB to keep from overdriving FOH, who knows what else he's doing to your sound?


Another thought: what volume do you dial in your tones at when you're at home? If you dial it in to sound great at polite home listening levels, it'll sound strident (and possibly boomy at the same time) when you're cranked up in the house.
 

vj.907

New Member
Thanks for the reply Rex, yes at home levels are not the issue I leave the levels per preset at -12 db and it’s all good. I use three to four amps via channels and set the amp level to global on the 3 and adjust manually on the FM3 via the layout tab. Yes agree the sound guy is the culprit I just wanted to see if there was another way to get around it. It didn’t dawn on me to switch from +4 to -10 I will definitely do this and report back tomorrow. Thanks again!!
 

mr_fender

Fractal Fanatic
It sounds like your "expert" sound guy is either too dumb or too lazy to switch between mic and line level for your inputs.
 

Rex

Legend!
Thanks for the reply Rex, yes at home levels are not the issue I leave the levels per preset at -12 db and it’s all good.
Actually, I meant volume in the room. Do you dial in your sounds at gig volumes at home?


I use three to four amps via channels and set the amp level to global on the 3 and adjust manually on the FM3 via the layout tab. Yes agree the sound guy is the culprit I just wanted to see if there was another way to get around it. It didn’t dawn on me to switch from +4 to -10 I will definitely do this and report back tomorrow. Thanks again!!
Good luck!
 

vj.907

New Member
@Rex yes sir I do all of my patches are dialed in at gig volumes, even at practice levels I don’t lose anything compared to when I play at that church.
 

Rex

Legend!
@Rex yes sir I do all of my patches are dialed in at gig volumes, even at practice levels I don’t lose anything compared to when I play at that church.
Ah, so you have other gigs or rehearsal situations that turn out fine, but the church gig is the exception? I feel for you. Maybe one of your bandmates knows the sound lech well enough to approach him. You're at his mercy.
 

vj.907

New Member
So today was another great day of worship! I took the advice of Rex and changed the out to -10, That alone gave back my dynamics and allowed the amp models to shine example is the Morgan’s chimed the Fenders punched and the Plexis screamed when I wanted them to. I did also speak to the sound guy and this is what we found out.

I am not the only guitarist that plays, usually if I am not available another is called in to fill the gap. When he does show up he bring in a twin and compact pedal board and mic’s his amp. That is where the problem started the sound guy switched the line out to Mic and never switched it back.

After services was done and the crowd cleared we gave it another go. And yup there it was I had everything back again I tried both +4db as well as -10 they both gave the same response to pick attack, volume control, tone control on the guitar. I also found out that he had a slight reverb as well as compression and EQ engaged after my signal. After all this was turned of It was a night and day difference. So to prevent future mishaps we decided to leave that input to the FOH strictly for me, and the other guitarist can have any of the others.

Big thanks to Rex for helping me come up with solutions and to continue to enjoy the amazing capabilities of the AxeFx III and FM3.
 

Rex

Legend!
Yay! Victory is thine. :)


So today was another great day of worship! I took the advice of Rex and changed the out to -10, That alone gave back my dynamics and allowed the amp models to shine...
That helped defeat the sound guy cranking your signal way too hot, and then compressing the hell out of it.


After services was done and the crowd cleared we gave it another go. And yup there it was I had everything back again I tried both +4db as well as -10 they both gave the same response to pick attack, volume control, tone control on the guitar. I also found out that he had a slight reverb as well as compression and EQ engaged after my signal. After all this was turned of It was a night and day difference. So to prevent future mishaps we decided to leave that input to the FOH strictly for me, and the other guitarist can have any of the others.
So you and he could work it out, then. Good for you. It doesn't always go that way.
 
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northtrader

Inspired
.......

I am not the only guitarist that plays, usually if I am not available another is called in to fill the gap. When he does show up he bring in a twin and compact pedal board and mic’s his amp. That is where the problem started the sound guy switched the line out to Mic and never switched it back.

After services was done and the crowd cleared we gave it another go. And yup there it was I had everything back again I tried both +4db as well as -10 they both gave the same response to pick attack, volume control, tone control on the guitar. I also found out that he had a slight reverb as well as compression and EQ engaged after my signal. After all this was turned of It was a night and day difference. So to prevent future mishaps we decided to leave that input to the FOH strictly for me, and the other guitarist can have any of the others.

I don't know where you live but, from what you've described, we must share the same sound guy! :rolleyes:
I have to deal with one guy on a periodic basis that is exactly the same.
At least your guy, at least for the moment, is somewhat teachable. Glad you got it sorted with him.
The guy I deal with just can't keep his fingers off the channel settings (like just leave the EQ flat, and everything else off please).
The FM3 just shines in this scenario when you have a sound tech that actually understands his channel input gain and then leaves everything else alone.
 

vj.907

New Member
I don't know where you live but, from what you've described, we must share the same sound guy! :rolleyes:
I have to deal with one guy on a periodic basis that is exactly the same.
At least your guy, at least for the moment, is somewhat teachable. Glad you got it sorted with him.
The guy I deal with just can't keep his fingers off the channel settings (like just leave the EQ flat, and everything else off please).
The FM3 just shines in this scenario when you have a sound tech that actually understands his channel input gain and then leaves everything else alone.
Yes so glad my sound guy at least gave me some time to pick his brain. Man the FM3 is really an astounding platform just plug in select your set and your done. The only issue I have now is which one to use, the FM3 or the Axe III!!
 
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