Sold a guitar. Shipped it via UPS. Receiver claims he did not receive it...

Dolan

Dolan

Inspired
UPS shows it was delivered to his address. Buyer says he was there all day and claims UPS did not deliver the guitar. Buyer wants me to refund his money and I refuse to do so. Claim was started on his end, but UPS says claim closed and seller needs to open a claim. In all the years I've been buying and selling gear, I've never had this happen. Has this happened to any of you guys and how did/what did you do to resolve it? He is demanding his money back, but I certainly don't want to be out a guitar and money.
 
la noise said:
What a rotten situation. That sucks.

Did you use Signature confirmation?
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No, I didn't. I realize now that was a mistake. I've never used signature confirmation. I prefer not having to sign myself, but I know my driver well and I inform him when I know I'm about to receive a guitar, signature required or not. I'd imagine most of us know our delivery peeps and suspect the buyer knows his as well. I asked him to contact his neighbors, call the police, contact the driver and see if his neighbors have cameras such as the Ring doorbell type, but he keeps saying I need to refund him his money.
 
He'll need to open a claim with reverb or ebay or paypal, whichever you used. not UPS. Only you can open a claim with UPS. I've had cases where I was able to collect on the UPS insurance because there was evidence the item was damaged during shipping, but I've also had cases where ebay or paypal forced me to refund the money because the buyer claimed they didn't receive the item. If you've never had this happen before, you are lucky :). The sad fact is some buyers take advantage of the way these services almost always rule against the seller. Lately, I just take my gear to GC. No hassles.
 
Just a question could you tell me where the buyer was located? Really sorry to hear you got rolled. I have a majesty for sale locally someone wanted to buy it using Paypal from another state. I'm like no way Paypal doesn't protect the seller enough for me to comfortable in knowing I will get paid and him not file some bogus claim. Guy got kind of shitty trying to convince me he uses Paypal for his reverb account all the time and knows all about the claim system.
 
Dolan said:
No, I didn't. I realize now that was a mistake. I've never used signature confirmation. I prefer not having to sign myself, but I know my driver well and I inform him when I know I'm about to receive a guitar, signature required or not. I'd imagine most of us know our delivery peeps and suspect the buyer knows his as well. I asked him to contact his neighbors, call the police, contact the driver and see if his neighbors have cameras such as the Ring doorbell type, but he keeps saying I need to refund him his money.
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Man, what a bummer. If he's not willing to work with you in any way, and is all about a refund then
that seems kind of telling.
 
Tom Morris said:
Just a question could you tell me where the buyer was located? Really sorry to hear you got rolled. I have a majesty for sale locally someone wanted to buy it using Paypal from another state. I'm like no way Paypal doesn't protect the seller enough for me to comfortable in knowing I will get paid and him not file some bogus claim. Guy got kind of shitty trying to convince me he uses Paypal for his reverb account all the time and knows all about the claim system.
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Yeah, that'd be a no on my end. Paypal will absolutely side with the buyer every time. They could probably send you a video of them stuffing the guitar into a wood chipper, and file a claim with Paypal, and Paypal would still refund their money from your account.
 
I’m really sorry that happened. It’s like a black hole has opened underneath you.

I always require a signature when I ship, unless it’s inconsequential. I’ve had purchases disappear before too, and a signature puts it all on the purchaser and carrier to figure out. I also insure for the full amount.
 
Dolan said:
UPS shows it was delivered to his address. Buyer says he was there all day and claims UPS did not deliver the guitar. Buyer wants me to refund his money and I refuse to do so. Claim was started on his end, but UPS says claim closed and seller needs to open a claim. In all the years I've been buying and selling gear, I've never had this happen. Has this happened to any of you guys and how did/what did you do to resolve it? He is demanding his money back, but I certainly don't want to be out a guitar and money.
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I will say that I actually just had this happen with UPS. I got a text message that something had been delivered, and I was at the door in about 30 seconds. Not there. Tracking clearly said "Left on porch." Nope. Wasn't like anyone grabbed it. Either the driver didn't want to complete his route, lied, or it was left at a different address. I'm pretty solid with my neighbors, and it wasn't left anywhere nearby either.

It would be nice if UPS did what Amazon does, and photograph the package when it's delivered.

I had to fight a bit with the sender, but they had to suck it up and send another.
 
Ya ive seen too many of these....

As a buyer,

I've stopped getting home deliver, and get it shipped to a store drop off so #1 it won't get stolen or lost, #2 no one but me can retrieve it, and #3 if there's any damage they can't question it.

As a seller,

Using reverb, no refunds. Sold as is. Shipping insurance required. ID and signature required on delivery. I make sure the shipper adheres when shipping.

You gotta protect yourself.
 
You can get a signature. You can get a photograph of the package on the porch. You can say “no refunds”. You can put the blame on the shipper. None of that matters. All the buyer has to say is “the package was empty“ and PayPal/eBay/reverb will side with the buyer, give them a refund, and you will not get paid. It’s happened to me. It happens all the time. That’s how that marketplace works. They’ve made the calculation that it‘s best to favor buyers over sellers. Why do you think eBay prohibits negative feedback for buyers?
 
GlennO said:
You can get a signature. You can get a photograph of the package on the porch. You can say “no refunds”. You can put the blame on the shipper. None of that matters. All the buyer has to say is “the package was empty“ and PayPal/eBay/reverb will side with the buyer, give them a refund, and you will not get paid. It’s happened to me. It happens all the time. That’s how that marketplace works. They’ve made the calculation that it‘s best to favor buyers over sellers. Why do you think eBay prohibits negative feedback for buyers?
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No one can claim a package was empty that was insured, weighed, and securely delivered.

I've been over Reverbs policy, there's no stipulation saying the buyer will always get a refund regardless.

https://reverb.com/selling/reverb-safe-shipping

Looking it over, it's pretty concrete.
 
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Reverb safe shipping is just shipping insurance. It doesn’t protect you from scam buyers. From personal experience, I can tell you if someone swaps an item for a non-functioning one or claims the package only contained bricks, you will probably not get paid.
 
The worst scam is if you ship internationally. All the buyer has to do is say it is counterfeit. They get to keep it and they get a refund. Happened to a girlfriend of mine selling a pair of shoes.
 
I have limited experience selling other than local Craigslist and Reverb. But a signature should always be requested. It sucks but you can’t trust people especially strangers. With no sig, it’s possible the buyer didn’t get the guitar and a porch pirate did. Either way it’s very unfortunate. Hope it works out for the OP.
 
Dolan said:
UPS shows it was delivered to his address. Buyer says he was there all day and claims UPS did not deliver the guitar. Buyer wants me to refund his money and I refuse to do so. Claim was started on his end, but UPS says claim closed and seller needs to open a claim. In all the years I've been buying and selling gear, I've never had this happen. Has this happened to any of you guys and how did/what did you do to resolve it? He is demanding his money back, but I certainly don't want to be out a guitar and money.
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My suggestion is to see if the person that you shipped the guitar to is willing to check nearby addresses.

This happened to me once. The problem that I had was that UPS delivered the guitar to the wrong address. After a few days the buyer found the guitar at a nearby address in a hotel lobby. Someone at the front desk had signed for the package and placed it in back of them in the check-in area. I guess they must have thought that a hotel guest shipped the guitar to the hotel prior to their arrival.
 
GlennO said:
You can get a signature. You can get a photograph of the package on the porch. You can say “no refunds”. You can put the blame on the shipper. None of that matters. All the buyer has to say is “the package was empty“ and PayPal/eBay/reverb will side with the buyer, give them a refund, and you will not get paid. It’s happened to me. It happens all the time. That’s how that marketplace works. They’ve made the calculation that it‘s best to favor buyers over sellers. Why do you think eBay prohibits negative feedback for buyers?
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This!

Too many bad experiences as a seller. Now I don't use any of these websites anymore for this reason. I only sell with local pickup or I ship with bank transfer. It takes more time to sell, but I don't have stress and I don't lose money anymore.

I'm an honest guy, and when a pedal was lost by the postal services I refunded the buyer anyway.
 
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