So, the Dumble thing...

[AdmiralB]

On the topic of Dumbles, it's interesting to me how the ODS is (IMO, obviously) seemly almost certainly responsible for the direction the Mesa Mark series took.

I was given a copy of an ODS schematic back in the late '90s - it came from a somewhat well-known boutique amp maker (he has product modeled in the Axe, AAMOF) who once worked as a tech in a large electronics shop in LA, and he found it in a filing cabinet. I redrew it in AutoCAD and for a long time it was the only ODS schematic out there on the 'net.

Anyway, it's notable how much the Boogie Mark II resembles the ODS. Remember, the original Boogie (Mark I) was a BF Fender preamp with an extra gain stage stuck in front - the distortion was mostly happening in front of the tone stack, the added triode was smacking what used to be the input stage.

But the Mark II added two gain stages, AND moved them after the tone stack (and in front of what used to be the tone stack recovery stage). Very different tone and feel. And exactly like the ODS.

I've mentioned this several times, and Steve Kimock - who apparently worked for Mesa on and off around that time - swears he never saw any Dumble product until after the Mark IIs were well along. But Randy was also doing repairs while Boogie was getting running, and it seems totally likely to me that he'd have been asked to work on Dumbles, since Alexander was/is so notoriously hard to contact.

Oddly enough, I greatly prefer the Mark II and later Boogies to the Dumble sound. I've only played one real Dumble, but neither it nor any of the models in various devices make it happen for me.

 

[AdmiralB]

and Santana too!

I remember when I read the interview with Carlos where he basically trashed Mesa and starting gushing over Dumbles. I'd heard the lead single from the record he was promoting (I think it was the one with Michelle Branch), and thought, wow, that IS good tone.

Then I found out that that track was the only one on the record that wasn't done with the Dumble(s), it was his old Mark Is...

My favorite Mesa amp is probably the Heartbreaker, which has a lead channel that's more or less the Mark I circuit. Just tighter and punchier than the Mark II and up.

 

[unix-guy]

And, in the comments:


Tim Pierce Guitar 1 year ago
+Dave Lanciani I use volume pedals in different places in the chain, but the one I'm using for this demonstration is absolutely last,just before the amp


So, he's controlling a low-Z signal with the pedal. Of course it's different.

So, you're saying that the volume pedal as the first thing after the guitar would be essentially the same as using the guitar volume knob, but otherwise not?

 

[Rex]

So, you're saying that the volume pedal as the first thing after the guitar would be essentially the same as using the guitar volume knob, but otherwise not?

True. With the volume pedal at the end of the chain, it's being fed a buffered signal, and it won't load the pickups like it would if it were right after the guitar.

 

[unFILTERed]

Leon! Awesome dude. Aja is one of my favorite albums of all time.

Interesting thing, I have a friend that used to teach at MI when it used to be GIT, and he told me he went to Dumble's shop many times. He said Dumble would tune all his amps by ear so all his amps were very inconsistent with one another. He told me he played many of them, some of them being the same model, and they sounded incredibly different. There's also a story that Robben Ford had two dumbles of the same model, and wanted Howard to tweak one of them to sound like the other one, and he couldn't no matter how long he tried. Basically, the dumble sound was just how he heard things on the day he tweaked it.

That being said, this is probably my favorite video of a dumble....

hi Camilo, the tones on this post are really great. did you try replicating the clean tones with ODS clean channel? i have a hard time, i feel like there is a lot done in the post production. even when he switches to the bridge pick up there is a lot of low end but its still not muddy, and still works for his neck pick up.

i got close but somehow i am not able to match it 100% using my mischief maker custom shop strat.

 

[Piing]

Here's the patch guys. If you're using single coil guitars I'd suggest bumping up the input trim until you hit the sweet spot where the crystal lattice resonates at octaves of the sun.

http://axechange.fractalaudio.com/detail.php?preset=6716

Thank you very much for sharing the patch, Leon.

While testing the patch, I started playing the intro of Echoes (Pink Floyd) with a Strat and a Fender Fat '50 on the neck. The sound on the high notes was quite thin. I was too lazy to get lost into the IR rabbit's hole, so I started adding and tweaking few things:

- Tube Comp
- Tap Drive with Hi-Cut, a bit of Bass and Mid scoop
- Filter boosting 200Hz assigned to a Pitch Follower (to avoid adding bass boost to the lower strings)
- A couple of tweaks on the Amp block
- CAB Tape Preamp and few room adjustments

Perhaps it would have been better to find another IR, but now it doesn't sound bad for playing that staff. I attach the modded preset (Scene 5)

ps: I didn't mean to make it sound the same as in the record, but just to sound cool, with that Dumble crispiness on the highs

 

[2112]

Thank you very much for sharing the patch, Leon.

While testing the patch, I started playing the intro of Echoes (Pink Floyd) with a Strat and a Fender Fat '50 on the neck. The sound on the high notes was quite thin. I was too lazy to get lost into the IR rabbit's hole, so I started adding and tweaking few things:

- Tube Comp
- Tap Drive with Hi-Cut, a bit of Bass and Mid scoop
- Filter boosting 200Hz assigned to a Pitch Follower (to avoid adding bass boost to the lower strings)
- A couple of tweaks on the Amp block
- CAB Tape Preamp and few room adjustments

Perhaps it would have been better to find another IR, but now it doesn't sound bad for playing that staff. I attach the modded preset (Scene 5)

ps: I didn't mean to make it sound the same as in the record, but just to sound cool, with that Dumble crispiness on the highs

This sounds really. Really good. Man I love this place.

 

[ETOLKIEN]

I didn't mean to make it sound the same as in the record, but just to sound cool

That's the idea my friend!

 

[Piing]

Here is a quick & dirty take:


It is amazing how the little nuances on the approach to attack the string on each note can make such a huge difference. I could spend all day playing only these few notes.

Attached the preset