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So if the Axe is REALLY bright when you point your FRFR at your face...do you...

bgrizzmayne

Inspired
Turn down the highs/increase high cut or do you arrange your FRFR differently?

I like the way that my axe sounds, but when it directly hits me at high volumes a la a wedge, it's pretty freaking harsh. With that said, I wouldn't be surprised if my guitar cab did the same thing if pointed it right at my face too.

What do you guys think? Since FOH is what's getting my signal, I don't want to high cut it so that it works for me in wedge format, but I lose all my highs out at FOH. But if it truely is that harsh and sounds bad out FOH, then I need to cut the highs.

My band runs our own sound from stage, and I just got a wireless, so I suppose I could go out and judge how it sounds in the mix and decide whether the highs are excessive in FOH or juts due to my monitoring configuration. What do you guys do?

PS: Im just using FOH as an expression, since we run our own sound from the stage, obviously we don't have a true FOH. I just mean going through our PA
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
You can low-pass your signal. Works well for both FOH and monitoring. Experiment with values between 5 and 7 kHz.
Using Hi Freq Cut in the Cab block is good place to do this.
 

bgrizzmayne

Inspired
yek- while I've got you in here: on some of your presets through my Matrix Q12a, some of the higher gain ones, I get a bit of low frequency rumbling on some palm muted rhythms. Do you ever encounter that- and would low passing that be the trick? I used to get a similar sound from my PODXT Pro back in the day...kind of a clipping thing. But I'm not clipping the outputs of the axe or anything. Any thoughts on that?
 

yek

Moderator
Moderator
Not doing that here.

There's no clipping going in the presets indeed.

Does it sound like a preset-issue, or is it maybe something physical in your chain?
Maybe low string rattling?

Does increasing LowCut Freq in the Cab block solve it?
 

bgrizzmayne

Inspired
More so like a preset issue here... Nothing on my guitar. I'll make an iPhone video in a few and try low cfutting. I'm just hesitant to cut out too many lows when it seems like my Q12a and suhr S4 are already pretty bright
 

steadystate

Fractal Fanatic
My opinion, an FRFR system sounds most accurate (or at least should) when you are in the center of its coverage pattern. The more off axis you get, the less accurate the response. So I would adjust the presets to sound there best with the speakers pointing directly at me.

The same will apply to the FOH speakers. Members of the audience residing directly in front of them will hear a more accurate response (assuming a quality FRFR system and a decent acoustic environment) than those sitting/standing off to the side. Since you can't idealize the sound for everyone, I'd go for the best sound at the best audience location (in front of the stage).
 

MikeyB59

Power User
My opinion, an FRFR system sounds most accurate (or at least should) when you are in the center of its coverage pattern. The more off axis you get, the less accurate the response. So I would adjust the presets to sound there best with the speakers pointing directly at me.

The same will apply to the FOH speakers. Members of the audience residing directly in front of them will hear a more accurate response (assuming a quality FRFR system and a decent acoustic environment) than those sitting/standing off to the side. Since you can't idealize the sound for everyone, I'd go for the best sound at the best audience location (in front of the stage).

All this is absolutely true. One thing that continues to amaze me though is how effective the ever-increasing use of speaker arrays placed up high are at making the sweet spots much bigger than they used to be. At bigger shows, I used to always try to get somewhere above the people in front of me so that I'd get direct sound and could hear the high end. Now with the speakers up high and radiating in many directions, I find myself much happier with sound in many places at venues and find the need to seek out the sweet spot diminished.
 

bgrizzmayne

Inspired
Thanks SteadyState! That was my thinking as well. Occasionally I run In-Ear-Monitors as well, so I'd think that the sound I'm getting in the middle of the speaker cone would be the one that FOH would be getting. It's amazing how different we perceive sounds at high volumes. High volume always brings out the highs- some of Yek's presets sound a little bassy and muffled at low volumes, but the higher I go up, the better it sounds.

Additionally, a lot of presets I tend to make quite trebly and full at lower volumes, but cranked with me in the center of the cone and they are pretty harsh. It's all a process, I spose!

Yek- sorry I haven't recorded the video to demonstrate what I'm talking about. Phone died and it's up on the charger. But yeah, there are these low frequencies on your patches that seem to resonate with my speaker/things in my house. Cutting out some lows on the GEQ of the amp block page absolutely helped and remedied the problem. Would you guys recommend the GEQ on the amp block for such adjustments? Thanks for the advice everyone!
 
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maxdown

Fractal Fanatic
I'd guess he means he dials in a 'live' preset at stage volume using his live monitoring cab(s) pointing at his face and makes sure it isn't harsh sounding. (The preset not his face that is ..... his face is way beyond hope :lol)
 

bgrizzmayne

Inspired
i cut the treble stuff so it isn't harsh, and the non-harsh works for both my on stage monitor as well as the house mix.

generally the FOH guys add a ton of bass and treble to the main mix anyway.

How do you cut the treble? Just curious. Do you high cut in the GEQ, high cut in speaker dynamics, or simply lower treble in the main amp block? Or something I didn't mention?
 

Cem

Experienced
I use 2 outputs on live, 2 XLRS are going to Audience only ( I don't hear them inside ), and one Jack is going from output 2 to my Stage Monitor only ( It's not frfr, it's a stage monitor which everyone uses, vocals etc ) And I Eq my monitor on stage from Global Out 2 10 band eq.
 

UnsungHeroGuitars

Fractal Fanatic
How do you cut the treble? Just curious. Do you high cut in the GEQ, high cut in speaker dynamics, or simply lower treble in the main amp block? Or something I didn't mention?

Rather than use 'sweeping' corrective or 'sticking plaster' remedies in Global EQ or even mixing desk channels, I'd always try to get it sounding good at source - amp & cab therefore. There' a plethora of parameters ranging from lowering the high cut in the cab block to treble, presence and Eq on the amp block :encouragement:
 

bammbamm

Experienced
It's called speaker directivity. I guess mumbo jumbo for how tone changes when directly in front of the speaker vs around it. From what I've heard, the Atomic CLRs have a 90 degree dispersion, meaning it sounds the same straight on and when you go 90 degrees from the front of speakers. I guess your speaker has a high degree of directivity. It happens to in real cabs.

Read more about it here: Speaker Directivity - The Gear Page

If it's your speaker that is the problem, you just need to create a healthy balance so you don't tear the audience or your own head off with the treble. Good luck.
 

rickgk

Experienced
From what I've heard, the Atomic CLRs have a 90 degree dispersion, meaning it sounds the same straight on and when you go 90 degrees from the front of speakers.

My CLR is super bright when facing it directly, I stand off axis and it sounds great.
 

Cem

Experienced
In September I posted a wish list seeking a similar solution just for output 2 here:

http://forum.fractalaudio.com/axe-f...2-separate-ir-parameter-edit-adjustments.html

The wish was for separate ir parameters for output 2 for FRFR.

I'm working with the Global EQ for Output 2 now to tame the harshness and simulate a bit of that "in the room" sound just for my wedge monitor.

I also am. But It is really hard!

Last gig, I found myself, cutting 4-8-16 khzs 5-6 dBs. And still harshing around. It depends on the monitor soooo much.
 
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