So frustrated....

[jlynnb1]

This is the first time in my years of playing, loving and preaching the wonders of all things Fractal that I've hit a wall and can't get past it. Trying to use the Axe with the new backline amps our church bought (Matchless HC30's) and I just can't get it to sound good at all. not 4cm, not into the return with cabs disabled, not into the front as fx only. I've tried everything I can think of, read the manuals, the wiki, watched youtube vids, searched the forum....I'm just at a loss.

Has anyone ever used it with an amp like this with success?? does it just not play nice with non-mv amps like this? even with just a row of shunts it dulls the original amp tone and the drives aren't interacting at all. The delays seem to add weird artifacts...I just don't get it. Someone save me!!

 

[iaresee]

Ditch the amp?

 

[jlynnb1]

it was only a matter of time before someone said it but it's not an option. i'm the band leader and need to set a good example, if i can make exceptions for my gear it opens the door for our 14 other guitar players to do the same. the logistics of our situation demanded this move, so i've got to roll with it.

 

[dbun]

Secretly shift the XLR from the mic to the back of the AFX.
Route one output to the amp so it still makes noise for added effect.

 

[iaresee]

it was only a matter of time before someone said it but it's not an option.

I'm sorry. I figured I'd get it out of the way.

i'm the band leader and need to set a good example, if i can make exceptions for my gear it opens the door for our 14 other guitar players to do the same. the logistics of our situation demanded this move, so i've got to roll with it.

Ok, back to serious now. Can you replace the amps with Axe-Fx's then if you're the band leader? Alternatively, FX8s might be more tenable for working with the Matchless amps.

 

[jlynnb1]

I'm sorry. I figured I'd get it out of the way.


Ok, back to serious now. Can you replace the amps with Axe-Fx's then if you're the band leader? Alternatively, FX8s might be more tenable for working with the Matchless amps.

no because all the guys have big pedal boards, etc. plus we JUST bought these amps so I don't think asking to go another direction would be well-received, lol. I'm the only one having issues, all of their pedalboards work just fine.

 

[nicolasrivera]

it was only a matter of time before someone said it but it's not an option. i'm the band leader and need to set a good example, if i can make exceptions for my gear it opens the door for our 14 other guitar players to do the same. the logistics of our situation demanded this move, so i've got to roll with it.

Being the bandleader, owning an AxeFx renders the question why didnt you get a Friedman FRFR amp or something in that range? why a real amp?

 

[dbun]

why a real amp?

I believe the amp is shared with all guitarists, so the idea is everyone uses the one amp; saves hauling amps around and micing up different amps etc.

 

[nicolasrivera]

I believe the amp is shared with all guitarists, so the idea is everyone uses the one amp; saves hauling amps around and micing up different amps etc.

ohh ok. Why aren't everyone using an AX8 then?

 

[Mr.nobody]

Secretly shift the XLR from the mic to the back of the AFX.
Route one output to the amp so it still makes noise for added effect.

basically, LIE IN CHURCH !??

 

[jlynnb1]

i have a CLR. that's not an option.

like I said, we have NUMEROUS other guitarists, most all of which have boutique amps and large pedalboards. forcing them all to use something they aren't familiar with and didn't want to use wouldn't have been fair. They are all perfectly happy with their amps and pedalboards so the onus is on me to lead and adjust.

we have 3 of these because we always run 3 electric players plus acoutstic.

 

[RossE]

Does the PW team use IEMs? Do you?
If so, my story would be.....I have an Axe FX. It is not designed to need an amp. All I need is FOH and my IEMs. We got these amps for you guys, so you wouldn't have to haul your amps and do tear down/setup every rehearsal and service. Do you really have to try to make a square peg fit in a round hole?

 

[iaresee]

So, let's go back to first principals with this. Do you like the guitar -> amp sounds you're getting? If yes, let's set up the Axe-Fx II in 4CM mode but, for now, we'll keep it all shunts and just try to get unity gain from the front input of the Axe-Fx II all the way to the speakers of the amp. If you do that, do you like the sound of the amp? Does it still sound like guitar -> amp (it should)?

Let me know if you want me to break down how to setup unity gain for 4CM.

 

[jlynnb1]

Does the PW team use IEMs? Do you?
If so, my story would be.....I have an Axe FX. It is not designed to need an amp. All I need is FOH and my IEMs. We got these amps for you guys, so you wouldn't have to haul your amps and do tear down/setup every rehearsal and service. Do you really have to try to make a square peg fit in a round hole?

yeah we all use IEM's. and maybe I could do that, I just feel like it sets a better example to use what I'm asking them to use.

 

[jakbur]

Have one of the HC30's modded for a more compatible input/channel.

 

[jlynnb1]

So, let's go back to first principals with this. Do you like the guitar -> amp sounds you're getting? If yes, let's set up the Axe-Fx II in 4CM mode but, for now, we'll keep it all shunts and just try to get unity gain from the front input of the Axe-Fx II all the way to the speakers of the amp. If you do that, do you like the sound of the amp? Does it still sound like guitar -> amp (it should)?

Let me know if you want me to break down how to setup unity gain for 4CM.

i feel like I've done the things i've read, but feel free to drop knowledge. I feel like the Axe is dulling the amp tone, for lack of a better term.

 

[calleballe11]

But hey hold up a second.....You're saying the amp sounds dull if you just have a patch full of shunts. Somethings not right! Are you sure you set the gain stages right? If you play your guitar and push the physical bypass button on the Axe it should sound the same as the guitar plugged in directly.

 

[iaresee]

i feel like I've done the things i've read, but feel free to drop knowledge. I feel like the Axe is dulling the amp tone, for lack of a better term.

If it's sounding dull that usually means the levels are low going in to the amp or through the effects loop. I've done unity gain, 4CM setups, for top-tier pros and the difference between the unit in bypass and engaged when it's all shunts is unnoticeable. So let's work on that?

Here's the preset you're going to be working with:



It'll take some time to do this so make sure you've given yourself time so you can work through it patiently.

Setup up the first part of the 4CM chain: guitar -> Axe-Fx II -> output 2 left -> input of the amp. Nothing in the effects loop of the amp for now. First make sure the input signal for your guitar is setup so that the input lights tickle the red from time to time. You're a veteran AFII user so I'm sure you know what I'm talking about here. Under the I/O menu make sure Output 2 Echo is set to NONE.

Now, with the Output 2 Left running in to the front of the amp, adjust the Output 2 level knob on the front of the hardware until there's no difference in volume between when you run your guitar in to the amp vs. when it's running through the Axe-Fx II and in to the amp.

Once you've got that first gain stage setup we'll move on to the loop.

Setup the second part of the 4CM chain: amp FX send -> input 2, output 1 left -> FX return. If the effects loop is parallel set the mix to 100% wet. If it's series, nothing to worry about.

Now, just like before, you're going to make sure that the signal going through the 4CM setup is as loud as the signal when it's just guitar -> amp. This time you're adjust the Output 1 knob though.

When you've got it equal you're at unity gain.

Head to the UTILITY menu and page over to the VU tab. Write down the values you see for OUT1 LEVEL and OUT2 LEVEL on this screen. Tape them to the front of your unit. If you bump the knobs you can use this screen to get back to the precise values you need to keep a unity gain signal running through the setup.

When all that is done you can start dropping your effects in. Engage and bypass them to compare the signal chain with and without them in place so you can maintain that unity gain signal where desired.

Let me know how it goes!

 

[RossE]

One more comment and I'll shut-up and see if larasee can help.

You spent $2k+ on an Axe FX so your sound would be great. That is setting an example. Instead of asking them to do the same, you got them some quality amps to use. If the other guitarists want to shell out the cash for an Axe FX, they can go FOH/IEM too. Until then you have provided some quality amps for them to use and reduced their setup effort.

 

[boleary2]

I've used my axe2 into the low input 12ax7 channel of my badcat blackcat as efx only and it sounds great. Really surprised the hc30 is not liking it!