Smooth high gain distortion vs grainy

jerotas

jerotas

Experienced
My favorite rhythm guitar sounds are very saturated, like Megadeth, King Diamond, and newer European metal such as Pagan's Mind and Lanfear.

I recently tried lowering the gain a couple notches (down to 5-6 from 8 or so) for some rhythm guitar. On most amps I find that it starts getting really grainy sounding and even more trebly. It does sit in the mix better but to me the graininess is actually kind of abrasive on my ears. Is there a way to use less distortion but have it sound smoother?

What are some of the smoothest amps you guys use for high gain?
 
Wow great question. I just started a quest for a real good high gain singing non choppy lead sound. The higher the gain even without clipping I hear grind and shrill. I don't want just a bassy neck pickup sound either. Agree need help!


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Hmmm, well I don't have any problem making a nice smooth / non-smooth lead sound. I have several. I could upload a few if you like? Not that they'll necessarily translate on your guitar (and they are 2XL patches).
 
Lately I've been using the Cameron CH-2 with stereo cabs, and put a fractional delay on one of the cabs (a difference of 0.04ms or so), this takes away the peaks (or the Bright affect to my ears) and gives a really smooth tone. I still might tweak the Bright switch for kicks, depending on how I wanted it to fit in the mix.
 
I found that there's a lot to be gained (n.p.i.) by experimenting on the tone page of the amp block. Try different tonestacks, change tonestack location, try different amp voicings (Warm f.i.) etc. You can also take some of the grain out by setting switches to "soft" wherever possible.

For what it's worth, my set up is a Splawn QR 3th gear with a Citrus Tonestack and an Eternal Love (gainlevl on 1) and a midbooster (gainlevel on 2) up front. Gain on the amp is about 4, Boost is off, input trim is way down low, master at about 5. Basketweave 4x12 completes the chain.
 
try using the input trim to reduce the gain, also amp master volume has large effect on gain control.
 
Use a PEQ block after the amp to cut out some of the harshness in the 3khz and 5khz regions.
Use a Filter block to find the exact locations of the problems if you're not sure.
That should get you some additional smoothness and clarity.

Also consider what pickups you're using.
My Fender Stratocaster's single coils were as smooth as a baby's backside compared to my JP guitar with high output Dimarzio's, who's distortion character sounded like shards of glass in comparison.
 
You could also try(I don't think it's been mentioned) setting the modeling to ideal/smooth or whatever that setting is.
 
all great ideas, thanks! My latest try was with a tone zone pickup, I dont know if these are particularly harsh...
 
jerotas said:
My favorite rhythm guitar sounds are very saturated, like Megadeth, King Diamond, and newer European metal such as Pagan's Mind and Lanfear.

I recently tried lowering the gain a couple notches (down to 5-6 from 8 or so) for some rhythm guitar. On most amps I find that it starts getting really grainy sounding and even more trebly. It does sit in the mix better but to me the graininess is actually kind of abrasive on my ears. Is there a way to use less distortion but have it sound smoother?

What are some of the smoothest amps you guys use for high gain?
Click to expand...

Guys guys guys...

You have 1,001 ways to skin a cat, but you're all over-thinking the problem.

jerotas, the "grainy-ness" you're hearing is the increased dynamic range.
Judging by the tones you described as your favorites, I'm assuming your patches (before gain reductions) to be fully overdriven to the point where virtually every note you play is clipping and compressing in the natural way that amps do (as opposed to output or digital clipping).
When you reduced the gain, you may have made it so that not every note clips/compresses. Essentially, part of what you are playing has a wider dynamic range of *clean* before it clips. When it clips, that's where you're hearing "grainy," the transition from not clipping to clipping.

So, if you want it smooth, but not sounding like a full on metal patch, pic amps that compress in a smooth way (Dumble variants come to mind). Then drive that sucker hard so that it all clips the way you like, and back off on the output volume (not master vol in amp block, which is very likely the source of how you're going to get that nice compression).

Then play with the plethora of EQ options to shape it the way you like so that it'll sit better in the mix. The grainy type of sounds are generally easier to mix than fully (or simply *more*) compressed tones - think of it as mixing clean guitars (easy) vs. high gain guitars (much harder) - so the answer to making it sit well is going to rely much more on EQ.
 
You can smooth out a amp by reducing the treble before the amp. You can try an OD pedal before the amp, and reduce the treble or tone on the OD pedal. This helps to "fix" your pickups.

Usually when I want a smooth amp, I go for the Mesa Mark series amps...... USA IIC+, etc....
 
Im looking for major singing high gain, without trebly or harsh clipping like responses. Maybe I need to add compression I rarely do, its a concept Ive never quite gotten lol.
 
symphx said:
Im looking for major singing high gain, without trebly or harsh clipping like responses. Maybe I need to add compression I rarely do, its a concept Ive never quite gotten lol.
Click to expand...
I'd stay away from broadband compression on high gain guitars. In most cases it doesn't work.
 
Try playing with the dynamic damping in the power section. I'm always going for that as I like more dynamics less compression myself. I'm sure you have played with the tone frequency in tone section. also the cathode section. I don't like to use standard EQ much on tones. I like to find it in the amps controls but there's so many variables..IMHO
 
jerotas said:
My favorite rhythm guitar sounds are very saturated, like Megadeth, King Diamond, and newer European metal such as Pagan's Mind and Lanfear.

I recently tried lowering the gain a couple notches (down to 5-6 from 8 or so) for some rhythm guitar. On most amps I find that it starts getting really grainy sounding and even more trebly. It does sit in the mix better but to me the graininess is actually kind of abrasive on my ears. Is there a way to use less distortion but have it sound smoother?

What are some of the smoothest amps you guys use for high gain?
Click to expand...

The only thing I can tell you that on the last Lanfear album we used a Mesa Recto/Engl combination (Axe-FX I).
At that time there was no Angel Severe so I had the "Energyball" dialed in. The EB is definitely not one of my faves in the Axe-FX and the single sound wasn't that great, but it added a certain "flavour" to the Mesa and everything sounded what you maybe would call smoother. I don't think that I would use two amps on the next album, though. Simply not necessary with the Axe-FX II.

I used OH IRs and I still love all their stuff. My suggestion: If it's too grainy with less gain try out different IR mixes before anything else. Always helped me :)
 
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