Slightly different inquiry about FRFR cabs

jzucker

Experienced
It seems that most of the requests I read are from guys looking for the thump of big 4x12 cabs and are playing low tuned metal or classic rock stuff.

I'm a jazz guitarist playing primarily Pat Metheny/Adam Rogers/Kurt Rosenwinkel as well as fusion stuff like Holdsworth/Scott Henderson and I also do some blues/rock playing but that's not a primary requirement.

I have been using the Alto TS210A cabs and they sound great for everything except when I'm playing with a really loud drummer and at extreme volumes, I think I'm getting some speaker compression from pushing those 10s a bit too hard. I have experienced the same thing with analog amps using 2x10s vs. 2x12 and was never really happy with a 2x10 cab for that situation.

Many of the clubs I play at do not have a house system and the ones that do, I end up with a much brighter sound than what comes out of the Altos so I'm not 100% happy with using the house system.

So, I'm thinking of upgrading to either the Alto 212A cabs or switching to xitone/atomic.

In the early days of my setup, i bought an atomic neo wedge but I felt it was a bit pre-disposed to heavier tones and didn't have the transparent cleans that I was looking for with Metheny-esque stuff so I ended up selling it.

But I'm willing to revisit and wondering if there's anyone else out there playing clean tones with heavy strings that could comment on my variation of what I'm looking for?
 
IMO, perfect for you, open-closed convertible back , various DSP EQ settings, mucho clean headroom
, bluetooth, etc..but most importantly,
@MicFarlow will work with you to get the cab to your exacting standards and preferences.....
 
Thanks, I emailed him this morning.
Email returned. :)

{Edited to add:}

I didn't mention the Britt since you are a little concerned about weight... but BradLake is correct... the Britt excels at cleans up through mid-gain. It is just a bit bigger and heavier than the standard wedges.
 
I have both the Xitone M Britt and the active wedge - if there is something I can try or do that might help let me know!

Sean
 
Thanks. As I mentioned before, I tried an atomic CLR / NEO back in the early days of getting my axefx and my impression was that it was better for heavier kinds of music than what I played but I fully admit that it could have just as easily been my lack of experience in dialing in tones. The MBritt cab is appealing to me in that I think i might be happier with an open back / no tweeter approach to clean tones.

The other possibility is that I just add a 3rd cabinet like the Alto TS212A to use just for dispersion for loud gigs.

I have both the Xitone M Britt and the active wedge - if there is something I can try or do that might help let me know!

Sean
 
I have the Alto TS210a and the TS212s. We use them as PA / monitors for my band. The 212 is much better in terms of clarity and volume fwiw.

The active wedge is much lighter and mobile than the m britt, but depending on the gig and space the extra size/weight of the britt cab has been worth it for my band.

Feel free to PM me if you want to chat or have me check something. I don't play a lot of jazz anymore these days, but if there is something I can check or try for you let me know. I am practicing and working on some new tunes the next couple days so no problem.
 
What I have found is that for dispersion reasons, i need to have at least 2 cabs and I'm a bit concerned about lugging around (2) 50lb cabs. I'm actually wondering if I could just get away with a pair of the 212A cabs or even adding a 3rd cab for dispersion purposes. Any thoughts on that?
 
It seems that most of the requests I read are from guys looking for the thump of big 4x12 cabs and are playing low tuned metal or classic rock stuff.

I'm a jazz guitarist playing primarily Pat Metheny/Adam Rogers/Kurt Rosenwinkel as well as fusion stuff like Holdsworth/Scott Henderson and I also do some blues/rock playing but that's not a primary requirement.

I have been using the Alto TS210A cabs and they sound great for everything except when I'm playing with a really loud drummer and at extreme volumes, I think I'm getting some speaker compression from pushing those 10s a bit too hard. I have experienced the same thing with analog amps using 2x10s vs. 2x12 and was never really happy with a 2x10 cab for that situation.

Many of the clubs I play at do not have a house system and the ones that do, I end up with a much brighter sound than what comes out of the Altos so I'm not 100% happy with using the house system.

So, I'm thinking of upgrading to either the Alto 212A cabs or switching to xitone/atomic.

In the early days of my setup, i bought an atomic neo wedge but I felt it was a bit pre-disposed to heavier tones and didn't have the transparent cleans that I was looking for with Metheny-esque stuff so I ended up selling it.

But I'm willing to revisit and wondering if there's anyone else out there playing clean tones with heavy strings that could comment on my variation of what I'm looking for?

Well I play every style pretty much in my solo show.
I use a QSC K12 and K12.2 both get great twin sounds. Very full and big box jazz like.
The Xitone cabs are also great I hear...I actually have two on order, but a used K12 can be had for 500.
You really will not be disappointed with a K12.
 
41lbs is pretty heavy for the K12. Not sure I want to go that heavy.

Well I play every style pretty much in my solo show.
I use a QSC K12 and K12.2 both get great twin sounds. Very full and big box jazz like.
The Xitone cabs are also great I hear...I actually have two on order, but a used K12 can be had for 500.
You really will not be disappointed with a K12.
 
41lbs is pretty heavy for the K12. Not sure I want to go that heavy.
Sure I get it. They are pretty heavy. But when it came down to that AIR under the strings when chording and playing lines...it was worth it. Like I said Mick at Xitone or other FRFR cabs are good too. But you are prob looking at 30lbs anyway and then maybe a power amp. I went for the sound. I can get an awesome twin and play blue bossa or then switch to a Mesa and get chunging sounds like Im using a 4x12....well I actually am!
 
If I was going to do that, I'd just get a pair of Xitone mBritts and be done with it. Frankly, for clean/jazz tones, it doesn't makes sense to use an FRFR system since in an FRFR, the woofer isn't seeing much of the guitar frequency before it gets crossed over. In fact, the mid driver is probably seeing everything from 1k to 4.5k which is almost all of the guitar frequency. That's one of the reasons the FRFR systems don't really sound like an amp in the room. To me anyway. I think the vast majority of amp modeling users are going for a completely different sound and IMO, the requirements are different. 99% of the time when someone posts a clean sound from their modeler, it's nothing like what I'm going for with a clean tone...

Sure I get it. They are pretty heavy. But when it came down to that AIR under the strings when chording and playing lines...it was worth it. Like I said Mick at Xitone or other FRFR cabs are good too. But you are prob looking at 30lbs anyway and then maybe a power amp. I went for the sound. I can get an awesome twin and play blue bossa or then switch to a Mesa and get chunging sounds like Im using a 4x12....well I actually am!
 
Frankly, for clean/jazz tones, it doesn't makes sense to use an FRFR system since in an FRFR, the woofer isn't seeing much of the guitar frequency before it gets crossed over. In fact, the mid driver is probably seeing everything from 1k to 4.5k which is almost all of the guitar frequency. That's one of the reasons the FRFR systems don't really sound like an amp in the room.
Most if not all the FRFRs that's been discussed in this thread is 2-way, woofer+tweeter. No mid driver. So the woofer produces range of 70 Hz ~ 2 kHz, which is a large bulk of the guitar tone (80 Hz ~ 1200 Hz fundamental freq, + some harmonics).
FRFR makes a ton of sense for clean/jazz tones IMHO.
 
Most "clean" jazzers who have played through an EV12L might disagree that 70hz-2khz accurately represents clean jazz guitar tone. I once played through an emmince pa woofer which topped out at 3.5k and it was ridiculously dark and muddy for guitar. So in my experience, you really need up to about 4.5k to represent a clean guitar sound.

Most if not all the FRFRs that's been discussed in this thread is 2-way, woofer+tweeter. No mid driver. So the woofer produces range of 70 Hz ~ 2 kHz, which is a large bulk of the guitar tone (80 Hz ~ 1200 Hz fundamental freq, + some harmonics).
FRFR makes a ton of sense for clean/jazz tones IMHO.
 
Thanks. As I mentioned before, I tried an atomic CLR / NEO back in the early days of getting my axefx and my impression was that it was better for heavier kinds of music than what I played but I fully admit that it could have just as easily been my lack of experience in dialing in tones.

Jack, I've been using the CLR Neo (or sometimes, 2) for jazz/archtop tones for years now. I never do heavy/djent/thumpy tones, and I certainly can't see anything to back up that initial impression.
Do you like the Axe tones you're getting, when listening back through hi-quality studio monitors? If so, you'll love the CLR's.
 
Most "clean" jazzers who have played through an EV12L might disagree that 70hz-2khz accurately represents clean jazz guitar tone. I once played through an emmince pa woofer which topped out at 3.5k and it was ridiculously dark and muddy for guitar. So in my experience, you really need up to about 4.5k to represent a clean guitar sound.
That's what a tweeter is there for. My previous comment was on the comment you made about mid drivers and how that's irrelevant to the FRFRs in discussion.

And a properly designed coaxial FRFR like the CLR is a coincident source, which means you aren't able to tell where the sound is coming from, woofer or tweeter, it's indistinguishable. Woofer doesn't have to produce up to 4.5k (and you wouldn't want it to, since it'll beam and break up).
 
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