Dutch
Fractal Fanatic
So, ever since I got my Ultra I've been looking out for a way to amplify it when I would ever find myself a band to play with again. Recently I've found a band, so that need arose.
Forever I have been more of a hi-fi-guitar-guy than an amp-in-the-room-guy, ever searching for my own twist on great tones I heard on CD. I was never that blown away by live gig tones. When I had guitar amps I angled them back so the treble wouldn't all pass by my knees. Even my beloved MESA Rectocab I angled backwards on my self-designed stand. Also I was very aware of the problems too-loud guitaramps on stage cause for the FOH sound, which is all-important, so I turned down as low as possible.
So, you see, the Axe-FX with a wedge would be perfect for my needs. I went looking as soon as I got my Axe two years ago and realized I didn't need my MESA 20/20 and 4x12 Rectocab any more. Keeping a sensible budget in mind I strolled over to the Thomann website to gaze their collection in the €500/600-ish regions. This was way before the Fractal-Atomic alliance and the Reactor FR came to be.
The Db-Technologies M12-4 Plus jumped up at me from the pages. I'd always loved the beautiful rounded floor monitors Flashlight/Ampco used on those big stages. This dB had some of that vibe, but sensibly priced. At the time €640-ish, it looked good, had nice specs, just not the reputation of the Dynacord, RCF, Mackie, HK Dart competition.
Then the JBL got hyped on this forum. €1100-ish in Europe. Too expensive for me. QSC HPR, same thing. FBT Verve, well that was more in the range, but still €800-ish. And then the Reactor FR surfaced! Costs 850 and then the wedge at 900. But they have tubes and therefore tube maintenance...
Still the dBs kept slumbering in the back of my mind. And the occasion arose. Alex (Yek) and Anand were planning a get-together to check out the Atomics. More interested joined, bringing more amplification methods to compare. Finances were in order, new band needs and 30-day money-back guarantee Thomann offers: I decided to order the M12-4 and hoped it wasn't too bad compared to the Atomics. Ordered the M10-2 Plus as well, just to see if that might be enough already. Why carry more? Over to Thomann: Pleasantly: the price had dropped to €549 and they had a B-stock for €490! Quickly grabbed that one! G66 decided to sponsor the day after I had ordered and laid out the plans to Alex. I had no way of knowing that. Still, I expected the Atomics to be much nicer than the dBs.
Got them home, plugged them in and was very pleasantly surprised! They sound great! The M10-2 however had noticeably less treble response. I needed to boost the treble quite a bit to get the same high end response as the M12-4. And the M12-4 was noticeably louder of course. But the M10-2 is a very small and portable speaker with a really staggering response for the size. Both models have a very even response through the frequency range, I could not detect any gaps in the frequency response, except for the darker nature of the M10-2. Correcting that with an Equalizer did provide very nice high end. Of course, all of this is IMHO and there's nothing scientific about it. I do not have any equipment to do real measurements. Best of all: they offer a very agreeable music-listening experience.
Last week I took them over to my brothers place, he recently bought a mountain of Electro Voice ZX-3s. Comparing those: the dBs had more bottom end and the EVs were harsher in the treble than the M12-4. My brother was quite impressed by the punch both dBs delivered, the darker top end of the M10-2 was however less inspiring. It did seem the EVs had the ability to go louder. Which is correct, since they're rated 600W. Anyway, the amp (Hill LC1200, 350W@8ohms/side) was clipping at the same level as the one in the dB, so that was about right. Volume was about the same at that point just, just the dB's had more, deeper low end. They do very well for music! I think my bro was jealous.
On to the meet!
Seriously, I was just hoping the Atomics wouldn't blow the dBs out of the water and have me sending them back to start saving my money again...
Alex had his Atomics, I had the two models of dBs, MarcoB had his VHT 2-90-2 with Paul Lenders 2x12s featuring Eminence Legends, and Herrieman (PEEWEE) had a set of TT-cabs featuring Beyma 12GA50 full range speakers, amplified by an ART SLA2.
The guy in white is Anand, that crotch is mine...
Alex had the Atomics set-up in the centre of the studio's bigger recording room and was wailing away. Nice sounding room, big enough for a full band, wooden floor, drum riser, lots of curtains and carpets. JBL PA system in the corners, which sounded American. Slightly bright and not much mids. Alex demoed some tones, attendees were arriving steadily. Quietly in the background I setup the dBs next to the second Atomic and when Alex took a small break I fired up the M10-2+.
Surprise all over! What box is that we're hearing now? The small one? Disbelief that this tiny bugger would pack such a punch! What does that cost? 400?!?! Incredible. But will it hold it's own next to a loud drummer?... Not sure.
Over to the M12-4. That one really blew me away! Amazing tight bass! Really nice hifi response. Compared to the Atomic it had way more and tighter bass. But that was with the monitor on the floor and the Atomic on a case standing upright. So we put the dB on its back next to the Atomic on the case. That alleviated some of the bass. But still there was more than the Atomic had in store. Putting the Atomic on the floor also helped its bass response, but not as deep as the dB. It was really too bad the Atomic Wedges couldn't be there to compare since they could take better advantage of the ground-coupling to produce more low end. The Atomic did have more of a guitar-amp-vibey tone. Several people detected the Atomics distorting slightly in the low end when driven hard.
Going back to the M10-2 proved that it was indeed less loud and darker toned.
Conclusion about these two was that the Atomic was better for guitar-cab experience, the dB M12-4 was slightly louder with extended frequency response and tighter bass, giving a more hi-fi experience.
Someone had a very nice Lowden Acoustic that we tried on both systems. Here it was evident that the dB had a wider frequency spectrum that made the acoustic shine where the Atomic was duller and less full-bodied.
Then we had the pleasure of Herrieman who featured a couple of TT-cabs (made in Germany) with Beyma 12GA50 speakers. They were another very positive surprise! They were arguably the loudest speakers of the bunch. Tonally they lived in between the dBs and the Atomics. That's quite an achievement since the Beyma's aren't coaxials, they are dual-flange speakers! No tweeter. For a stereo set they were the cheapest solution of them all and we can't say it was the worst. Definitely not, at least for electric guitar.
Can't remember if we put the Lowden through those and we didn't try music...
Next up was MarcoB with his VHT 2-90-2 and Lenders 2x12. Marco admitted he'd fallen down the rabbit hole and overtweaked, since the setup wasn't very punchy and quite dull in comparison to what we'd heard already. This setup should be very capable of much more. Also for me personally, I'm more of a hifi-lover than an amp-in-the-room-guy, as I stated above. So I may be the wrong person to judge this.
Next we dragged the speakers over to the drum riser and listened and switched and listened again, played some backing tracks... the results we heard earlier were duplicated here, so I guess they're pretty dependable.
All setups had great tone! This Axe-FX box is awesome!
These were the results of a decidedly un-scientific comparison, I'm sure Jay would not approve. But we moved them around a lot and got consistent results, so...
AtomicFR: most guitar-amp-like experience, most guitar-amp-like appearance. Great tone, great vibe!
dB M12-4 Plus: Kick-ass monitor, wider frequency response, better suited for general purpose music and acoustics while still giving a huge electric guitar tone. Hey, I like 'im an' he's mine.
dB M10-2 Plus: tiny brute. If you don't need hurricane force volume (thanks SRV-Man) this thing almost fits in a backpack! Just turn up the treble a bit... It's going back, but I'm gonna miss the little bugger. Wished it had nicer treble then I might have sent the other one back. Really, just upping the 2, 4 and 8k bands a bit got them in the same territory as the M12-4...
TT-cabs/Beyma: Tonally in between the Atomics and the M12-4, more coloration than the dBs, very loud! And the most cost-effective solution of the bunch if you want stereo. Hey, we're still Dutchmen.
So, for those seeking a wedge on a budget: give those dB Technologies cabs a try!
I think in the US the dBs are decidedly more expensive compared to the QSCs and JBLs, so your experience may differ, although FBTs prices should be comparable since they're also Italian.
More reviews:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/532282/0/
Forever I have been more of a hi-fi-guitar-guy than an amp-in-the-room-guy, ever searching for my own twist on great tones I heard on CD. I was never that blown away by live gig tones. When I had guitar amps I angled them back so the treble wouldn't all pass by my knees. Even my beloved MESA Rectocab I angled backwards on my self-designed stand. Also I was very aware of the problems too-loud guitaramps on stage cause for the FOH sound, which is all-important, so I turned down as low as possible.
So, you see, the Axe-FX with a wedge would be perfect for my needs. I went looking as soon as I got my Axe two years ago and realized I didn't need my MESA 20/20 and 4x12 Rectocab any more. Keeping a sensible budget in mind I strolled over to the Thomann website to gaze their collection in the €500/600-ish regions. This was way before the Fractal-Atomic alliance and the Reactor FR came to be.
The Db-Technologies M12-4 Plus jumped up at me from the pages. I'd always loved the beautiful rounded floor monitors Flashlight/Ampco used on those big stages. This dB had some of that vibe, but sensibly priced. At the time €640-ish, it looked good, had nice specs, just not the reputation of the Dynacord, RCF, Mackie, HK Dart competition.
Then the JBL got hyped on this forum. €1100-ish in Europe. Too expensive for me. QSC HPR, same thing. FBT Verve, well that was more in the range, but still €800-ish. And then the Reactor FR surfaced! Costs 850 and then the wedge at 900. But they have tubes and therefore tube maintenance...
Still the dBs kept slumbering in the back of my mind. And the occasion arose. Alex (Yek) and Anand were planning a get-together to check out the Atomics. More interested joined, bringing more amplification methods to compare. Finances were in order, new band needs and 30-day money-back guarantee Thomann offers: I decided to order the M12-4 and hoped it wasn't too bad compared to the Atomics. Ordered the M10-2 Plus as well, just to see if that might be enough already. Why carry more? Over to Thomann: Pleasantly: the price had dropped to €549 and they had a B-stock for €490! Quickly grabbed that one! G66 decided to sponsor the day after I had ordered and laid out the plans to Alex. I had no way of knowing that. Still, I expected the Atomics to be much nicer than the dBs.
Got them home, plugged them in and was very pleasantly surprised! They sound great! The M10-2 however had noticeably less treble response. I needed to boost the treble quite a bit to get the same high end response as the M12-4. And the M12-4 was noticeably louder of course. But the M10-2 is a very small and portable speaker with a really staggering response for the size. Both models have a very even response through the frequency range, I could not detect any gaps in the frequency response, except for the darker nature of the M10-2. Correcting that with an Equalizer did provide very nice high end. Of course, all of this is IMHO and there's nothing scientific about it. I do not have any equipment to do real measurements. Best of all: they offer a very agreeable music-listening experience.
Last week I took them over to my brothers place, he recently bought a mountain of Electro Voice ZX-3s. Comparing those: the dBs had more bottom end and the EVs were harsher in the treble than the M12-4. My brother was quite impressed by the punch both dBs delivered, the darker top end of the M10-2 was however less inspiring. It did seem the EVs had the ability to go louder. Which is correct, since they're rated 600W. Anyway, the amp (Hill LC1200, 350W@8ohms/side) was clipping at the same level as the one in the dB, so that was about right. Volume was about the same at that point just, just the dB's had more, deeper low end. They do very well for music! I think my bro was jealous.
On to the meet!
Seriously, I was just hoping the Atomics wouldn't blow the dBs out of the water and have me sending them back to start saving my money again...
Alex had his Atomics, I had the two models of dBs, MarcoB had his VHT 2-90-2 with Paul Lenders 2x12s featuring Eminence Legends, and Herrieman (PEEWEE) had a set of TT-cabs featuring Beyma 12GA50 full range speakers, amplified by an ART SLA2.
The guy in white is Anand, that crotch is mine...
Alex had the Atomics set-up in the centre of the studio's bigger recording room and was wailing away. Nice sounding room, big enough for a full band, wooden floor, drum riser, lots of curtains and carpets. JBL PA system in the corners, which sounded American. Slightly bright and not much mids. Alex demoed some tones, attendees were arriving steadily. Quietly in the background I setup the dBs next to the second Atomic and when Alex took a small break I fired up the M10-2+.
Surprise all over! What box is that we're hearing now? The small one? Disbelief that this tiny bugger would pack such a punch! What does that cost? 400?!?! Incredible. But will it hold it's own next to a loud drummer?... Not sure.
Over to the M12-4. That one really blew me away! Amazing tight bass! Really nice hifi response. Compared to the Atomic it had way more and tighter bass. But that was with the monitor on the floor and the Atomic on a case standing upright. So we put the dB on its back next to the Atomic on the case. That alleviated some of the bass. But still there was more than the Atomic had in store. Putting the Atomic on the floor also helped its bass response, but not as deep as the dB. It was really too bad the Atomic Wedges couldn't be there to compare since they could take better advantage of the ground-coupling to produce more low end. The Atomic did have more of a guitar-amp-vibey tone. Several people detected the Atomics distorting slightly in the low end when driven hard.
Going back to the M10-2 proved that it was indeed less loud and darker toned.
Conclusion about these two was that the Atomic was better for guitar-cab experience, the dB M12-4 was slightly louder with extended frequency response and tighter bass, giving a more hi-fi experience.
Someone had a very nice Lowden Acoustic that we tried on both systems. Here it was evident that the dB had a wider frequency spectrum that made the acoustic shine where the Atomic was duller and less full-bodied.
Then we had the pleasure of Herrieman who featured a couple of TT-cabs (made in Germany) with Beyma 12GA50 speakers. They were another very positive surprise! They were arguably the loudest speakers of the bunch. Tonally they lived in between the dBs and the Atomics. That's quite an achievement since the Beyma's aren't coaxials, they are dual-flange speakers! No tweeter. For a stereo set they were the cheapest solution of them all and we can't say it was the worst. Definitely not, at least for electric guitar.
Can't remember if we put the Lowden through those and we didn't try music...
Next up was MarcoB with his VHT 2-90-2 and Lenders 2x12. Marco admitted he'd fallen down the rabbit hole and overtweaked, since the setup wasn't very punchy and quite dull in comparison to what we'd heard already. This setup should be very capable of much more. Also for me personally, I'm more of a hifi-lover than an amp-in-the-room-guy, as I stated above. So I may be the wrong person to judge this.
Next we dragged the speakers over to the drum riser and listened and switched and listened again, played some backing tracks... the results we heard earlier were duplicated here, so I guess they're pretty dependable.
All setups had great tone! This Axe-FX box is awesome!
These were the results of a decidedly un-scientific comparison, I'm sure Jay would not approve. But we moved them around a lot and got consistent results, so...
AtomicFR: most guitar-amp-like experience, most guitar-amp-like appearance. Great tone, great vibe!
dB M12-4 Plus: Kick-ass monitor, wider frequency response, better suited for general purpose music and acoustics while still giving a huge electric guitar tone. Hey, I like 'im an' he's mine.
dB M10-2 Plus: tiny brute. If you don't need hurricane force volume (thanks SRV-Man) this thing almost fits in a backpack! Just turn up the treble a bit... It's going back, but I'm gonna miss the little bugger. Wished it had nicer treble then I might have sent the other one back. Really, just upping the 2, 4 and 8k bands a bit got them in the same territory as the M12-4...
TT-cabs/Beyma: Tonally in between the Atomics and the M12-4, more coloration than the dBs, very loud! And the most cost-effective solution of the bunch if you want stereo. Hey, we're still Dutchmen.
So, for those seeking a wedge on a budget: give those dB Technologies cabs a try!
I think in the US the dBs are decidedly more expensive compared to the QSCs and JBLs, so your experience may differ, although FBTs prices should be comparable since they're also Italian.
More reviews:
http://srforums.prosoundweb.com/index.php/m/532282/0/