Setting up presets - recording ready or no?

Rekster

Rekster

Experienced
Just wondering what others are doing when setting up presets. I've done some deep listening to my favourite albums for the last week with my studio monitors, paying close attention to guitars and find they sound great but far thinner sounding than any of the presets I've ever set up. In fact, I'm reworking the IR's I've been using on my presets now as I find them far too dark and not conducive to a good mix.

So my question for everyone is - Are you setting up your presets to be usable as is on your recordings or is it best to get a big sound that you enjoy playing but still depend on EQ in your DAW to fine tune and thin things out to make things fit better in a mix? I just want to know if I'm driving myself crazy trying to achieve something that doesn't make sense here. I've been using AF3 for a few years now, but I just climbed back into the IR rabbit hole and it can get a little crazy down here. :)
 
I make presets to inspire songwriting. I record dry for reamping later most of the time, unless it's a quick demo.
 
johnnypig said:
I make presets to inspire songwriting. I record dry for reamping later most of the time, unless it's a quick demo.
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Great advice. I've been starting to get in the habit of recording dry tracks alongside tracks with my presets in case I want to rework things later. I'm still torn if I want a preset that needs to be thinned out later, whether it's by reamping or playing with EQ in my DAW. I went back to some recordings I did pre-AF3 with my tube amps and I realized I hacked the shit out of them with EQ in my DAW....

I keep thinking I need to have my presets ready to go in a mix now, and that's whats leading me into this rabbit hole.

So I assume you are just reamping and slashing frequencies to fit the mix after the fact?
 
Make patches that sound good to you but leave some room for the bass (hi pass 85-125 ish but maybe even up to 200).

At mix time, guitars can get hi passes up to 200-500 depending on what is going on. That sort of shaping is done in the context of the mix and what needs to stand out at any moment.

listening to some of my favorite mixes, I hear the engineer bringing low shelves in and out. So, for a guitar only section, more low end. When the rest of the band comes in, dial it back. I stole that trick for sure!
 
Also watch the high end on an FRFR system. Guitar cabs drop off 4500-6500.

at mix time, making some guitars dull (low pass) sometimes helps other things stand out. So that is another post-processing possibility.
 
Finally, remember that there is a ton of additional EQ (compression, delay, reverb) that happens at mix time.

the sound you hear on the album may be way different that what was coming out of the speaker.
 
fractalz said:
Finally, remember that there is a ton of additional EQ (compression, delay, reverb) that happens at mix time.

the sound you hear on the album may be way different that what was coming out of the speaker.
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So in other words, I shouldn't be trying to strip my presets down to what I hear on album recordings? :) It's certainly a great starting point of course though.
 
Rekster said:
So in other words, I shouldn't be trying to strip my presets down to what I hear on album recordings? :) It's certainly a great starting point of course though.
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It's pretty tough to do that and enjoy solo jamming.

some things just have to be done, like the direct (no cab) sound of Muse, or adding things like console breakup to get some sizzle (I did that for a Green Day patch that really needed it).

so, it depends. if you can pick up some of the Rock Band stems that are floating around, you can hear a lot of post-processed guitar tracks in solo.
 
I pulled up some isolated guitar tracks from some songs recently on youtube. Yes I realize the quality isn't great there, and who knows the authenticity of the source as well. But isolated and on their own, wow are they thin and fizzy sounding without the rest of the instruments present. My presets sound 10x better to my ears, but to have things fit nicely in a mix of course I have to not be selfish and hog frequencies. So again, I'm stuck wondering if I should just enjoy my guitar tones as is, and worry about what happens in the mix later... Perhaps I already have that answer. ;)
 
I make mine reasonably recording ready because I don't have a band and I can't jam with anyone right now. I'm not comparing my sounds to anything else, so there's no "grass is greener" going on. LPF and HPF are close friends.
 
I do think anyone who uses studio monitors should spend a LOT of time listening to their albums and put the guitar aside. It provides a lot of perspective on how things fit in a mix. I did an A/B with my previous presets and they sound muffled like a blanket is over the speaker compared to the reworked presets. So even if they aren’t quite mix worthy now they are closer to the ballpark they need to be in. If I need to thin further for a recording I’ll do so. All the input has been fantastic so far, but I’d love to hear more opinions. 😊
 
I make my basic presets for each amp setup to sounds good when I'm playing then adjust it slightly for recording... After recording I reamp it and adjust it more for the mix.
 
I also listened to my presets while listening to some of Leon Todd’s @2112 5 minute tones and they seem to be in the general ballpark as far as clarity and brightness goes. I’d love to hear what he does for presets on recordings. Leon, do you set presets up to be mix ready or do you rework things for recording?
 
The best way to be heard is to occupy a smaller sliver of the EQ spectrum in the upper mid range where there is less harmonic content usually.
 
@Rekster If you make your presets recording ready to fit in a mix, then you will have an easier time fitting into an FOH mix without disappearing or getting radically EQ shaped by FOH to fit in a mix.

Live drums should never sound like beating on pizza boxes. Bass and drums need to work together sonically with the guitar to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. Guitar can have a bit of low end if the drums and bass leave some spots for it to poke through (seeing Tool or Chevelle live is a great example).

However, if both your bass, bass drum, and guitar have the same frequencies of tubby low end, and the guitar scoops the mids too much, then you are all going to be battling for "more me" whether it is a recording or live.

Most of my new mixes on my site have guitars with low end but the bass and drums are still audible and intelligible. All the bass and guitar are dry tracks reamped through the Axe-FX III.
 
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