Setting the Vu meters??

kevrock

kevrock

Experienced
So as i understand it you just constant strum and set the level. sounds easy.
my question is when i do that to a clean patch vs a high gain patch it always sounds like the clean is louder
is that because of the compression of high gain? will it not be as noticeable at stage volume?
just about the only question i have about the new firmware. Thanks
 
Yes. Clean tones have a much wider dynamic range than distorted tones, making it harder to balance their levels. Stage volume differences depend on our method of amplification. Tube power amps tend to add their own natural compression and can help to even things out a bit. Solid State power amps are usually more transparent. You can try adding a bit of compression to your clean tones to make them balance out better.
 
IIRC the new meters are using an apparent loudness algo so they should work for clean and dirty tones the same.

What you are describing is the difference between RMS and Peak energy. That difference is wider for clean tones (usually) than distorted ones.

I like my cleans to have a wide dynamic range so I can play with the dynamics with pick attacks. I've always cranked my dirt tones louder to match the cleans instead of vice versa.
 
Right I understand that but I need to know if I set clean and dirty at the same level on the meter are the dirty patches not gonna be as loud live.
 
kevrock said:
Right I understand that but I need to know if I set clean and dirty at the same level on the meter are the dirty patches not gonna be as loud live.
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That is the idea but I haven't had a chance to use the built-in meters yet to see what is what.

I have used an apparent loudness plugin in Pro Tools to do the same thing and it worked great for cleans vs. dirt. So I'm thinking the built-in one will also be great.
 
I used them today. And I didn't get a chance to turn it up. But at low volume the cleans were louder.
 
You will likely have to find an acceptable trade off, maybe 3db less for cleans to create the balance you seek. I suspect these issues are why this was never a priority, it's been requested since the birth of the Ultra.
 
luke said:
You will likely have to find an acceptable trade off, maybe 3db less for cleans to create the balance you seek. I suspect these issues are why this was never a priority, it's been requested since the birth of the Ultra.
Click to expand...

IIRC it is using an apparent loudness algo, that is different than a RMS / Peak meter. Apparent loudness makes clean vs. dirt work out the same.
 
A plucked guitar string is far from a steady sound source. It has a very strong initial attack, a fairly quick decay, and a slow sustain and release. Clean tones preserve more of this very wide dynamic range, while distorted tones compress it down considerably. Even metered to the same average level, the stronger peaks of the clean tones will tend to show through, making the clean track sound louder. This is not always a bad thing. If everything is all squashed down to the same level all the time it ends up sounding very boring and even fatiguing.
 
There are two topics going on here.

1. The nature of clean vs. dirty signals.

2. How the new VU meters work and help you level presets.

Seems like all on the thread so far understand point 1.
 
I can't wait until one of the much much smarter people around here make a video guide or a written guide because I'm not even sure where to start with these new meters.
 
Not much to it. Hit Utility menu button and page over to the VU page. There's 4 meters. L1 and R1 are for Output 1. L2 and R2 are for Output 2. Below the meters it shows the current output setting for Amp Blocks 1 and 2 and you can use knobs A and B respectively to adjust these on the fly. It also shows a percentage value for the current settings of the front panel output knobs as well, but these have no affect on the meter since they are after the D/A converters. The meters show the relative loudness of the signals going to each output for the current preset. The meter displays a range of -20dB to +10dB. The vertical line on the meters marks 0dB and is the sweet spot for average preset levels. The positive portion of the meter to the right of the line is for peaks and headroom. Just play through your preset and adjust the amp blocks output values with the A and B knobs until the output level averages close to the vertical line (0dB). The fast peaks will go above the line and that's OK. That's the point of leaving that 10dB of headroom. It also gives you enough wiggle room for things like lead boosts and such. When you've got your level the way you like it, hit the Store button and Enter twice to save the changes to the current preset. Switch to your next preset and repeat the process until all of your presets meter out about the same average level. Keep in mind that if you are using both X and Y states for the amp blocks, the A and B knobs adjust the output levels for the current state of each amp block, either X or Y, whichever is currently selected. You'll have to switch to each X or Y state and adjust them separately if you use both in the current preset.
 
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kevrock said:
...will it not be as noticeable at stage volume?
Click to expand...
Right. If your cleans are sounding louder than your dirties when set to the same level, it's a good bet that you're playing at a low volume. Low volume does that to your ears. Try it at gig volumes and see if that doesn't change things. :)

The final judge of your preset leveling will be at the volume (and in the mix) that you'll be playing. You may want to bump things a dB or two, depending on what you hear.

And don't forget: some presets you want to be louder than others. :)
 
So do u guys just strum. I just strum all six strings open. At the same pressure. For clean and dirty. Sound about right?
 
kevrock said:
So do u guys just strum. I just strum all six strings open. At the same pressure. For clean and dirty. Sound about right?
Click to expand...

That's what I've done with all of my main patches. It has really leveled things out, at bedroom studio volumes nicely.

I haven't used it out gigging, yet, at these upgraded volume settings, so I'm not sure how it will work out live. So far, so good, though. I found most of my overall patch volumes were pretty close, already, but a couple were pretty goosey; it's been really helpful.
 
mr_fender said:
Not much to it. Hit Utility menu button and page over to the VU page. There's 4 meters. L1 and R1 are for Output 1. L2 and R2 are for Output 2. Below the meters it shows the current output setting for Amp Blocks 1 and 2 and you can use knobs A and B respectively to adjust these on the fly. It also shows a percentage value for the current settings of the front panel output knobs as well, but these have no affect on the meter since they are after the D/A converters. The meters show the relative loudness of the signals going to each output for the current preset. The meter displays a range of -20dB to +10dB. The vertical line on the meters marks 0dB and is the sweet spot for average preset levels. The positive portion of the meter to the right of the line is for peaks and headroom. Just play through your preset and adjust the amp blocks output values with the A and B knobs until the output level averages close to the vertical line (0dB). The fast peaks will go above the line and that's OK. That's the point of leaving that 10dB of headroom. It also gives you enough wiggle room for things like lead boosts and such. When you've got your level the way you like it, hit the Store button and Enter twice to save the changes to the current preset. Switch to your next preset and repeat the process until all of your presets meter out about the same average level. Keep in mind that if you are using both X and Y states for the amp blocks, the A and B knobs adjust the output levels for the current state of each amp block, either X or Y, whichever is currently selected. You'll have to switch to each X or Y state and adjust them separately if you use both in the current preset.
Click to expand...


This right here worked perfectly. I was already really close but these new meters took me the rest of the way.
 
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